Hidden Outs

[winky51]

The better was the PF raiser. These players were soooooo bad the other literally could have had anything. But yes I took that into consideration. Ironically the PF raise hit a set of QQQ. If I would have known it would have been a fold. He was also a Miami Heat basketball pro.

[winky51]

SB was the PR raiser. Yea he's raising with 62 or 56 PF. Look at the hand.

[winky51]

Hello read the god damn hand.

[winky51]

READ THE FRAKING HAND!!! He was the PF raiser so he had a big fricken pair not 62 or 76

[threeonefour]

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READ THE FRAKING HAND!!! He was the PF raiser so he had a big fricken pair not 62 or 76

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people don't raise non pairs?

at any rate your equity wasn't close to 18%. you know you don't win the hand if you beat KK right. you said there were two other callers, you have to beat them too.

[winky51]

Yup. I wasnt following the turn if others were in the pot. And no that player was not a nut to raise suited connectors in the BB. Your giving them too much credit. I nailed him to a big pair and I was right. It was a set though. This is 1/2 no foldem holdem.

Ahh fuggetaboutit. I know I had a good read on the table the player, and the hands. The pot odds were huge. I won a good deal of money that day for 1/2.

[trumpman84]

This hand is sketchy at best. There is another type of player that chases gutshots to the river, and they don't typically win a lot of money. What happened this hand, was that you seemed to convieniently put the pfr on the hand that gave you the most equity in the pot.

PFR could easily have AA, AQ or QQ here as well (and he did) which makes this a really bad -EV play, not to mention the other 2 players in the hand who could easily have a paired Ax or 67s. I'm definetly dumping this every time on the turn when it was heads up and all I had is a gutshot. It's pretty clear to me then that my ace will rarely be good when it hits.

EDIT: Why did you count your ace outs as half outs on the flop and then as full outs on the turn? Did you really think the PFR would ALWAYS have KK?

[winky51]

I know these players. They dont raise with AQ or AK into a bunch of players. They ONLY raise with AA-QQ. Thats it. They all play scared.

If anyone called the turn I fold. No one did and I was suspected me good was good. If I only counted my ace as 1.5 outs then I am still with 5.5 which is 1:7. The pot was 1:9 not including implied.

These players really do call with anything. Ace high, bottom pair terrible kicker. Pair of 22s with 4 overs and 2 draws. I mean they are the worse of the worst. Many pots are 7-8 players in it. I raise suited connectors on the button all the time. Then they all check to me for the free shot at another draw. Example of these players. Ive even seen some reraise when someone else has the buts when it seems obvious they can be behind. I wish they played online. I mean bad. 2 callers on that flop? No way they got 6 whatever. They would call the turn too. They call the turn I fold. They didnt. But I do see your point.

After the results I was wrong for calling. But 3x AA, 3x QQ, 6x KK. Well I guess my odds were cut in half. 2 outs for both backdoors, 1.5 outs for my ace. 3.5 outs is still 12:1. Pot was 16:1 on the flop or around there.

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These players really do call with anything. Ace high, bottom pair terrible kicker. Pair of 22s with 4 overs and 2 draws. I mean they are the worse of the worst.

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that leaves me with 2 backdoors (str8 and flusg) and 1 over. In Poverstove my pot equity is almost 18% for this hand. WOW.


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[cpk]

If this hand is even profitable (not convinced), you're definitely not giving up much if you let this go on the flop.

A three-straight doesn't count for anything unless it at least has a chance to give you an OESD on the turn. As it was you drew to the idiot-end of a gutshot. That's a serious long shot from the flop and not really worth considering.

I add up your true outs and the odds and even if this play is wrong it is not a huge money loser. But people who choose to go away on the flop are not losing lots of money by doing so, either.