No me gusta Absolute

[car ramrod]

you know he has a set of 88's right?

I would make a call on teh river.

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Even morons dont bluff when they know its hopeless.

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Yes they do. Sometimnes they don't even know they're bluffing. Call the river.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
you know he has a set of 88's right?

I would make a call on teh river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read my post, I guess it isn't clear that I was talking about what to do if you only had a pair of eights. With a set I c/c, c/f river

[toss]

I think you have to raise the flop to get rid of overcards and cards like 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

On the river I'd have a hard time calling since villain would have to be pretty aggressively and fire two barrels without a flush.

[Guruman]

I don't like raising the flop.

I don't think raising the flop folds out any spades, since med to big spades could catch and win, and small spades are looking at a straight flush draw. since BB called two cold in a moderate pot, I'd put him on either a mid pocket pair or a couple of small broadways/suited connectors/suited aces/suited kings.

If bb had a non[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]suited connector/A/K or a pp similar to yours, he may have folded even if you didn't raise. If he does have a spade he's going nowhere and may reraise.

mp could either have a better pp, a made flush, UI overs, or UI overs with a spade. He could be continuation betting on a scary board, or he could be betting with a made hand or a strong draw. If he's bluffing on air, you don't want him folding. If he's defeating you, you don't want him raising. You're likely either way behind him or slightly ahead.

To me, the only time a raise would be correct is when
A)MP has UI overs and will call and
B)button has a spade and will fold.
-or-
A)MP has a bigger pocket pair with no spade and will fold the turn and
b)button will fold here or on the turn.

I don't see eiher of these as particularly likely.

IMO fold>call>raise

[toss]

I think we're giving up way too much by folding the flop. MP isn't very likely to be leading out with a flush (he'd slowplay that) and JJ+ if probably going to cap preflop. That leaves 99 and TT for us to worry about. Our only other fear is a set.

[Redd]

I'd say the closest thing up to this point is the preflop 3-bet against an unknown, but I like it. 77 I'd probably start thinking otherwise, but I probably play in more passive games than you do.
I pay off on the river, but I think it's pretty close. Again, the big thing that makes me want to pay off is that he's a complete unknown.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we're giving up way too much by folding the flop. MP isn't very likely to be leading out with a flush (he'd slowplay that) and JJ+ if probably going to cap preflop. That leaves 99 and TT for us to worry about. Our only other fear is a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I think I agree with that. I'll ammend to call>fold>raise

I still don't like the raise.

[Wynton]

I play it exactly the same. Nh.

[car ramrod]

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yeah, I think I agree with that. I'll ammend to call>fold>raise

I still don't like the raise.

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folding is not better then raising on this flop
I think it is raise>call>fold