set K's and coordinated board on river

[Rex Ruthless]

Bodog 2/4

SB is not particularly aggressive, I've only shown down strong hands

5 limpers, SB completes, I raise from BB with KK, all call
flop xKJ rainbow, SB checks, I bet, 3 callers including SB
turn 10 completes rainbow, I bet, 2 folds, SB calls
river A, SB checks, Hero ???

[imported_smoove]

bet/call

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
bet/call

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think a non-aggressive SB is check-raising with on this river that we're behind?

OP doesn't give a very detailed description - but from what it sounds like this is the kind of player that will:

- check/call with pair and 2-pair hands
- donk-bet a Q fearing that Hero is going to check-behind
- Villian might c/r a straight but, definitely isn't check-raising anything that Hero beats - again because the board is just as scary for Villian.

Value Bet, Fold to a checkraise.

[shark6]

If he has a Q for the straight, sometime he'll lead the river and sometimes he'll check/raise. Once he checks, it's statistically more likely he doesn’t have it. So it’s a bet on the river.

The only question is whether or not you should call a check/raise. I think you do need to call a raise because could be bluffing (rare) or have made 2-pair with AK, AJ, AT, Ax.

[imported_smoove]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet/call

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think a non-aggressive SB is check-raising with on this river that we're behind?

OP doesn't give a very detailed description - but from what it sounds like this is the kind of player that will:

- check/call with pair and 2-pair hands
- donk-bet a Q fearing that Hero is going to check-behind
- Villian might c/r a straight but, definitely isn't check-raising anything that Hero beats - again because the board is just as scary for Villian.

Value Bet, Fold to a checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
The only question is whether or not you should call a check/raise. I think you do need to call a raise because could be bluffing (rare) or have made 2-pair with AK, AJ, AT, Ax.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is obviously VERY player dependant. However, If we're talking about a typical passive 2/4 player, or an unknown 2/4 player who seems passive, we should not be calling a check/raise on this river card. This type of player is not making that play with anything less than a Queen.

In fact, part of the reason this is an easy value bet is that many times Villian will not checkraise when he does hold the Queen.

[shark6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only question is whether or not you should call a check/raise. I think you do need to call a raise because could be bluffing (rare) or have made 2-pair with AK, AJ, AT, Ax.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is obviously VERY player dependant. However, If we're talking about a typical passive 2/4 player, or an unknown 2/4 player who seems passive, we should not be calling a check/raise on this river card. This type of player is not making that play with anything less than a Queen.

In fact, part of the reason this is an easy value bet is that many times Villian will not checkraise when he does hold the Queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

It’s 13-1 to call a check/raise on the river. I’d want a better read than, “not particularly aggressive” before I fold there.

[Rex Ruthless]

SB CRd the river, I thought for a moment and thought 2-pair was likely enough to make a crying call given the odds at that point. He showed QT for the str8 - bleh!

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
It’s 13-1 to call a check/raise on the river. I’d want a better read than, “not particularly aggressive” before I fold there.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a good reason why players like yourself are probably not winning as much as you could be. Just beacuse you're getting 13-to-1 here is not a good reason to call. Look at the board. Recall how Villian has played the previous streets. Recall that Hero has only shown-down quality hands. Realize that this board looks just as scary to a Villian as it does to Hero.

This Villian is NOT checkraising with less than the nuts here.

[gopnik]

bet and call a c/r because two pair is highly possible