Hand...

krishanleong · #1 12-13-2005, 10:29 AM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (11.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

BB is pretty rediculous. 98/23 over 61 hands. Not suprisingly he is also very bad postflop.

MP is 55/14 shorthanded. My raise was an isoraise + crappy player. I felt like I'd have plenty of equity 3-way with initiative. No read on button.

I feel like the flop call is close/bad.

I think the turn is fine.

I think the river is fine.

Someone argue with me please. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks,

Krishan

Spicymoose · #2 12-13-2005, 10:39 AM

On the flop you are getting 16:1 closing the action. You have 6 outs, but all of them they are horribly tainted. If you do hit, your opponents also hae plenty of redraws. On top of all this, you have 3 opponents, who may be likeing their hands, and costing you a fortune to get to showdown. I think you can fold this. Once you get past the flop, you pick up a real draw, so can continue. River is obviously standard.

Preflop is standard also, I do this with 77.

stigmata · #3 12-13-2005, 10:54 AM

PREFLOP: Fine. I think cold-calling is OK too.

FLOP: I'm not giving myself much more than 2 or 3 outs here, and folding the flop. Redraws, not knowing whether you are ahead if you do catch, and reverse implied odds make this really difficult to play even when you catch something.

TURN: This is pretty close IMO. Your getting around 11:1 on implied odds if you hit. You have a ton of outs, but none of them are even close to the nuts. BB suddenly seems to like his hand, and MP1 is obviously drawing. How many outs are good? I think this is a borderline call...

RIVER: Standard.

Digs · #4 12-13-2005, 11:16 AM

What are we putting BB on?

The turn donk reaks of 2 clubs or a jack a certian % of the time.

Not sure if it's over 7.5% but I'm not convinced it's under either.

stoxtrader · #5 12-13-2005, 11:27 AM

I think the flop should be a bet, or check/fold. given your description of the two others in the hand I like check/fold.

check/call doesnt work for me because your outs are tainted, and the tainted ones that you don't know about have reverse implied odds.

#6 12-13-2005, 11:41 AM

I fold the flop. You're getting incredible pot odds, but every out could end up costing you badly. Someone easily has a J (probably MP1), so you're 8 outs are completely tainted, I'd say .5 outs only because hitting an 8 gives you then shot at a house on the river. At best, I'd give the idiot end of the straight draw 2 effective outs. Even then, redraws are a big concern.

The turn adds a gutshot though that's not dangerous, so I like that call and the river fold.

krishanleong · #7 12-13-2005, 11:50 AM

Everything in this post is correct. Flop does have horrible reverse implied odds. The pot is pretty big though and I'm closing the action. There has to be a pot size where you would call with incredibly tainted outs like this.

The dumb thing about this particular hand is I was ahead all the way. Villian had J6o. If I had thought about the river instead of clicking the autofold button I might have found a call on that river when the middle player folds.

Krishan

stigmata · #8 12-13-2005, 11:56 AM

OMFG, ouch [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Spicymoose · #9 12-13-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The dumb thing about this particular hand is I was ahead all the way. Villian had J6o. If I had thought about the river instead of clicking the autofold button I might have found a call on that river when the middle player folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

krishanleong · #10 12-13-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's more than 1 in 15. Did you catch the read? Also think about what a turn donk means. Most of the time it's a pair picking up a draw or a draw picking up a pair. He probably would have check raised a weak pair on the flop right?

Krishan