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  #1  
Old 12-02-2005, 06:43 PM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Default I don\'t want to be average

I'll give my situation just to outline a scenario for this thread, but this doesn't apply to me specifically, and I think everyone can benefit from this discussion.

I've noticed since beginning my poker career, my game has gone through a couple different stages. I began reading 2+2 before I actually started playing limit hold'em online, so when I started playing I had some idea of what I was doing. I wasn't particularly good, and started playing around the 28/6 range for full ring. I basically just played my hand, and really didn't pay attention to who else was at the table.

Stage 2, I became somewhat of a regular in the micro forum. I had downloaded PT and GT+, and bought and read SSH. Very quickly my game started to improve immensely. I started to use reads in my play, became tighter and more aggressive. As I became more experienced, I got the SSH concepts down better, and basically played very ABC good poker at the low limits, which is good enough to kill those games.

I moved to 6-max play, but stayed in the micro forums. For my first 10K hands or so, I was too tight and not aggressive enough, playing a 20/12 style. I got myself to start reading and contributing to HUSH, and my game jumped by leaps and bounds again. I began to learn the importance of aggression, blind stealing (ex: I used to fold JTo on the button when folded to me), and blind defense. I became looser and more aggressive (currently 26/19). I learned all sorts of good new lines and plays to make in different situations.

Well now I'm playing 5/10, and I'm not finding it too difficult, but certainly not as easy as the 3/6 or 1/2 games. I feel like I'm an average winner, probably somewhere in between 1-2 BB/100. The trouble is, I don't want to be average. I want to kill these games, I want to be making 3BB/100 and I want to feel very comfortable when I move to 10/20.

My game seems to have come to a bit of a plateau however - I don't feel I'm getting significantly better anymore. Sure, I read and post hands, and contribute to threads, but I don't feel it's doing as much for my game as it used to. So what can I do to bring my game to 'the next level'?

I've read SSH (once) and TOP, and I own HEPFAP but have only read a few sections (such as the SH part). I've done a hand reviewing session with another poster when we both moved up to 3/6 which I found helpful.

For those who do find they can kill the 5/10 games or higher, what types of things have you done that you found really helped your game? For everyone else, what types of things are you doing right now to elevate your game? I'm sure I have probably skipped some important steps along the way, as I have moved up fairly quickly relative to the number of total hands I have played. Are there any books out there that have made significant impacts on your game that I haven't mentioned already?

Post your thoughts and advice.
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2005, 06:51 PM
Redd Redd is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

Maybe you should consider a coach.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2005, 06:56 PM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should consider a coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is one thing that I am strongly considering. I'm wondering what kind of effect that could have on my game though. From what I understand, it is pretty expensive to do that. I think I will send off a few PMs to people who have undergone coaching to see what they have to say about it.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:00 PM
climber climber is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

start reading the high stakes forum and see how much of it you understand. look for the factors they use in their analyses and also note the factors they dismiss.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:04 PM
Monty Cantsin Monty Cantsin is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

Do EV calcs away from the table.

Take spontaneous, just for fun, shots at bigger games once in a while.

Get together the best poker players you know and play some .50/1. Play this game as if your life depended on it, play to get the money. After each hand, or after the entire session, expose all non-seen cards and discuss any interesting hands. If you do this, please invite me even though I don't fit criteria number one. I used to love the old SS games that were like this, and found them surprisingly profitable. That's right I'm calling you out, bitchez.

Play more live poker.

Pay close attention to the metagame.

Read the old, old, old archives.

Play some NL.

Play some STTs.

Play some MTTs.

None of these have worked for me yet, hopefully YMMV!

/mc

Also, try changing your belt buckle, Maybe the gods of stochastic processes are getting back at you!
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:15 PM
SparkyDog SparkyDog is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

Game and seat selection. I really don't think 3BB/100 is possible without paying quite a bit of attention to those two factors. Also to paraphrase The Mason in one of the Poker Essays books, after a player reaches a certain techincal proficiency, his most important decision is game selection.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2005, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
Well now I'm playing 5/10, and I'm not finding it too difficult, but certainly not as easy as the 3/6 or 1/2 games. I feel like I'm an average winner, probably somewhere in between 1-2 BB/100. The trouble is, I don't want to be average. I want to kill these games, I want to be making 3BB/100 and I want to feel very comfortable when I move to 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, shut up man. You're lucky to be making 2 BB/100 at the 5/10 games. In my opinion, the Limit games are tightening up and getting harder to sustain a high winrate. Good luck with 3BB/100.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2005, 10:30 PM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well now I'm playing 5/10, and I'm not finding it too difficult, but certainly not as easy as the 3/6 or 1/2 games. I feel like I'm an average winner, probably somewhere in between 1-2 BB/100. The trouble is, I don't want to be average. I want to kill these games, I want to be making 3BB/100 and I want to feel very comfortable when I move to 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, shut up man. You're lucky to be making 2 BB/100 at the 5/10 games. In my opinion, the Limit games are tightening up and getting harder to sustain a high winrate. Good luck with 3BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite confident that 5/10 can be beat for 3+ BB/100 given that one plays very well and has good table selection as mentioned above. There are so many players there that are just plain BAD. Ask some of the players in the mid-high SH forum, and I'm sure they will tell you that it is very possible to run over the 5/10 game.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2005, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

game selection is just so key, that's right. i always hit up the high avg. pot tables and leave if they dry up or i'm in a bad seat. once i get a good table i stay as long as possible and cash in.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2005, 10:36 PM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
game selection is just so key, that's right. i always hit up the high avg. pot tables and leave if they dry up or i'm in a bad seat. once i get a good table i stay as long as possible and cash in.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I used to do game selection. However, I think most have realized there is a FAR better method. Open up PT/Poker Ace and about 6-8 tables, and just leave or browse 2+2 for 30 mins, come back and see what you have. Join the waitlist for any of the good lookin ones, and try and get good seats. The average pot method is very unreliable.
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