An Odd Flop Situation With KTs

[shant]

Is this the Party 10/20?

[damaniac]

I don't disagree with folding, necessarily (still not sure), but if you are a somewhat Laggy BB, you are raising any K you call with preflop and sometimes a PP b/w 6 and K too. Even a decent player will probably call with worse suited kings in the BB in this scenario. Now, whether or not he will have a worse K often enough to combine with the raiser also having a worse hand to make playing on worthwhile is more interesting, but I see no reason that he can't raise K8/K9/88 or something here a lot of the time.

[gopnik]

If you 3-bet the flop and TAG calls, you are done with the hand. (your c/r after c/r looks VERY VERY scary and only a BIG hand will call you). By done I mean fold to a bet on the turn UI.

If BB caps and leads out on the turn, you are done with the hand.

If BB just calls (TAG folds)and checks to you on the turn, you bet.

Thus, I like to 3 bet the flop because after that the hand becomes easier to play.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the Party 10/20?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was Party 5/10.

of course it matters. even if it's not a big decision, it's still a -EV decision. i'm pretty sure that if you looked into the pt-stats for the hand, you'd find a negative winrate. actually, i'd suspect that the same goes for KJ and hands like that too. isn't this just basic stuff? this hand is like, straight out of the "hand domination, reverse implied odds etc"-chapter of whatever hold 'em book.

[bobhalford]

I fold this preflop just because it's a weak hand and you are out of position for the whole hand which makes it difficult to know when you are ahead or behind. When you are ahead, you don't make as much money as you would in better position.

You might think about donkbetting the flop, calling the raise from the TAG and then bet/folding the turn if it's a non-K/T or non-club.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Some of the preflop discussion in this thread is laughable, imo. KTs can absolutely be played UTG. There are possibly some tables where I'd fold it, but not many. I'd limp with a lot more crap than KTs, that's for sure.

As for the flop, I think I'd fold, though these are probably the types of flops that make me have a slightly lower WTSD than most 2+2ers. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Anyway, I don't like our position here and the reverse implied odds seem like they might suck pretty bad.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind the preflop limp.

On the flop, I don't see a lot of value in a 3-bet. The TAG will never fold a better hand (would he fold KJ to a check/3-bet? I doubt it), and any hand he does fold has at most 3 outs against you (Ax). Flops don't get any dryer than this; no reasonable draws exist. If you cold-call, TAG will be getting 11:1 to call -- not enough for a 3-outer.

So is BB check-raising with a weak K? Possibly. I'd cold-call here. If TAG 3-bets, then you're in big trouble, as he wouldn't do it with QQ/JJ, so you're dominated by AK/AA/KQ almost all the time. Pray he has AA and turn a K or T. If TAG just calls, then raise a non-Broadway turn. If BB keeps going after you, dump it. If he calls (and TAG will fold unless he's beating you), then take a free showdown.

That's my line, anyway. I'm sure everyone will hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the idea of cold-calling to see how the TAG will react to the checkraise.

A couple of thoughts: The TAG won't be reacting just to the checkraise but should also be taking our cold-call into account. This hopefully (given Private Joker's plan) will in fact dissuade a 3-bet from QQ/JJ, even if the TAG thinks the BB is psychotic.

Also, I personally would not fold heads-up versus the BB if he 3-bet the turn.

Edit: I would actually prefer to 3-bet if I knew the TAG had a 3-outer. (He has implied odds with that 3-outer and I want the seemingly LAG big blind to myself.) But we don't know that.

[callmedonnie]

I thought playing K10 was like your friends finding out you ride a scooter or some [censored]?

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of the preflop discussion in this thread is laughable, imo. KTs can absolutely be played UTG. There are possibly some tables where I'd fold it, but not many. I'd limp with a lot more crap than KTs, that's for sure.

As for the flop, I think I'd fold, though these are probably the types of flops that make me have a slightly lower WTSD than most 2+2ers. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Anyway, I don't like our position here and the reverse implied odds seem like they might suck pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I've ever folding KTs EP, it's not been many times. I've played it profitably for many, many hands.

I'm not sure how we can talk about reverse implied odds in this hand. It doesn't seem applicable.

I like calling 2 here as well and see what happens from there.