Being an "F*$%! IDIOT" with 87s

W. Deranged · #1 11-14-2005, 09:12 PM

So this one was pretty hilarious. Villain in the hand was so angry after the hand that an orbit later he was still shouting expletives at me. The nice bonus was that he proceeded to try to take really aggressive shots at me (including bluff-three-betting the river against my two pair) for the next 20 minutes and hence spewed about 8 BB of tilt into the Deranged coffers.

I'm interested in every street (except the river, which is easy). People are encouraged to discuss pre-flop if you desire.

Villain ("Demented") in the given hand was an interesting loose-aggresive pre-flop, passive/neutral but sometimes tricky post-flop (like 28/14/1). As demonstrated here, he liked to do odd passive things like check-raise one street and then check-call (or, in at least one case, check-fold) the next.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Deranged is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, Demented raises, Deranged calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Demented bets, Deranged raises, Button folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Demented calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Demented checks, Deranged bets, Demented raises, Deranged calls.

River: (11.70 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Demented checks, Deranged bets, Demented calls.

Final Pot: 13.70 BB

private joker · #2 11-14-2005, 09:18 PM

I usually fold PF, but otherwise nice hand. People hate losing with TPTK to backdoor straights.

shant · #3 11-14-2005, 09:19 PM

I fold preflop. If I raise the flop, I'm checking the turn because he is tricky and you have to call the checkraise. I think you could consider just calling the flop.

adios · #4 11-14-2005, 09:19 PM

Demented obviously had at least one Ace and as it appears you hit runner-runner to beat him. Perhaps hitting your side card woulnd't have been enough as he may have had a set. Anyway I take the free card on the turn.

Baloosh · #5 11-14-2005, 09:20 PM

Flop and turn look pretty standard, and you've already mentioned the river.

Pre-flop, you obviously thought you play better than this table well enough to warrant a CC with plenty still behind you to act. Is this call a run-of-the-mill one for you?

W. Deranged · #6 11-14-2005, 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop. If I raise the flop, I'm checking the turn because he is tricky and you have to call the checkraise. I think you could consider just calling the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the really interesting question comes down to weighing the value of getting a hand like TT or KQ to fold on this turn versus the value lost if we get check-raised. The fact that against the vast majority of hands we are losing to we have 9 outs makes me feel more comfortable with the turn bet.

Borodog · #7 11-14-2005, 09:22 PM

I don't get preflop. Do you do this a lot?

The rest looks good.

W. Deranged · #8 11-14-2005, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop and turn look pretty standard, and you've already mentioned the river.

Pre-flop, you obviously thought you play better than this table well enough to warrant a CC with plenty still behind you to act. Is this call a run-of-the-mill one for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

This call is hardly run of the mill for me. But there was another loosish guy behind me, no one two aggro, and I figured that the EP poster and the limpers are never folding here. So I figured this hand would usually go 5-6 handed, and so I decided I'd gamble a little.

private joker · #9 11-14-2005, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop. If I raise the flop, I'm checking the turn because he is tricky and you have to call the checkraise. I think you could consider just calling the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like calling the flop. I think getting it heads up is quite important, especially before we've determined the PFR definitely has an A. Raising this flop is best if we plan to continue in the hand, and the pot is big enough to continue.

As for the turn, checking could be disastrous if villain has a hand like QQ/JJ and is planning to fold -- or if he has any hand with enough outs to beat us; until he c/r, we're not sure who's drawing and I think a bet is in order. The c/r sucks, but we have plenty of outs to call it.

shant · #10 11-14-2005, 09:29 PM

The player WD described is not folding TT-QQ anywhere close to a good percentage of the time. That is why I advocate checking, because a tricky player like this is going to put pressure on you and will also want to showdown. I took WD's postflop read on him this way.