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#11
11-13-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
what does everyone think of c/r this flop? [/ QUOTE ] I think a flop c/r here is a pretty decent plan, especially since Hero judges villain's pf capping standards to be light. Given that we didn't, this is a great turn to c/r to protect our hand / drive out small PPs from BB. Surf 
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#12
11-13-2005, 08:39 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
damnit. The mythical value-bluff still eludes me. One day... [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure value bluffs are very stupid. I do understand the concept but the situations in which a player could fold a better hand or call with a worse one are usually misplayed on a street opening up a spot for an unusual play. I wouldn't look to value bluff ever. Krishan
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#13
11-13-2005, 09:03 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] damnit. The mythical value-bluff still eludes me. One day... [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure value bluffs are very stupid. I do understand the concept but the situations in which a player could fold a better hand or call with a worse one are usually misplayed on a street opening up a spot for an unusual play. I wouldn't look to value bluff ever. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] Value bluff opportunities usually arise in huge pots when you have something marginal but showdownable against an unknown (or unknowns). Since your opponent is unknown it's possible he'll fold a better hand, but as we know in large pots people will also call with some ridiculous holdings. There is also the value bluff raise, a multiway squeeze play whereby in one fell swoop you cause both a better hand to fold and a worse hand to call. This is rare and beautiful and is sometimes considered the holy grail of value bluffs.
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#15
11-13-2005, 10:12 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
The only good, non-fictional value bluffs that you should worry about are when you have reason to believe your opponent missed his draw but you still can't win a showdown (usually because you've missed some draw as well).
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#16
11-13-2005, 10:54 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
This might actually be a value-bet
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#17
11-13-2005, 10:59 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
im not sure if i like the bet but im leaning towards a no.
one thing that i think needs consideration is that the BB will often have a pair that he checks on the river. by betting you are valuebetting his hand for him when he wouldnt do it himself. i think there is value in a bet vs ace high and i do not think this is a bluff attempt, but with the BB in the hand i prefer checking. i also think MP will sometimes check behind with a pair that cant beat an 8 or a J.
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#18
11-13-2005, 11:07 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
i also think MP will sometimes check behind with a pair that cant beat an 8 or a J [/ QUOTE ] I highly doubt he caps 77 or less preflop. I think he has ATs/AQ/AK here a ton. You have a good point, however, about BB checking a better hand on the river. I did think about this factor at the time. The only reason I thought it might be a little bit of a bluff was that I thought sometimes this TAG might fold a chopping AK, especially if he has to overcall. Everyone seems to think this isn't the case though. SO maybe not.
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#19
11-13-2005, 11:20 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
now that I think of it, I really doubt a TAG overcalls with AK here. So this bet has to have some bluff value, yes? If BB calls with any ace. Since I'm bluffing out a chopper and it won't happen too often it might not be of much value. But I think it's there.
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