Ace rag in LP after everyone limps to you? Theory Q

[RiverTheNuts]

I hate hate HATE these spots... its 3 limps to you and you have something like A8o on the button. Its probably the best hand preflop, but its difficult to play postflop, plays terribly multiway, and if you do hit your ace, you wont get action from anyone unless they are beating you.

All options seem crappy. It seems like you have preflop pot equity, so raise, yes? But then youre usually committed to bet on the flop and maybe again on the turn if it checks to you.

Limp?? Thats pussyish to limp ace high at 6 max, and just promotes a multiway field even more.

Fold? Folding ace high on the button in 6 max seems ridiculously weak.

Someone slap some sense into me please

[aslowjoe]

90% of the time I will fold. If the field is extremely weak and the blinds are tight I might raise. I think 90%+ is a fold.

[deception5]

Your choices are limp or fold and usually folding is best. Raising is a really, really bad plan in this spot.

The problem with raising is that there's no way you get this down to less than 3 (usually 4) opponents for 1 more bet when they have already invested money. And you virtually never win this pot without spiking an ace. You usually have an edge preflop but it is small. If you spike an ace on the flop your edge will be large, if not you will almost always have to dump the hand or you will spew chips because of the large pot you have created.

It would be much better to raise AJo here because a pair of jacks will hold up much more often than a pair of 8's against this many players (it will also be the top pair on the board far more often).

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like you have preflop pot equity, so raise, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The only hand rewarded in poker is the best hand. At the showdown you win nothing if your hand is second- or third- best. Being a little better than average is worthless. Thus, starting hands that are a little better than average tend to lose money in the long run (SSH 46).

[/ QUOTE ]

If it helps, think of the rake when you fold this one. Your edge is probably small enough with this hand that the rake turns it into a loser.

Scott

[krishanleong]

If they suck, I limp every time. You dominate them more than they dominate you.

Krishan

[Digs]

I usually limp this.

Given when you have a limpfest like that I usually feel I can outplay the field + my hand has more than 4:1 preflop equity.

[Silverback]

I did a post which had this aspect within it this week,

In King Yaos "Weighin the odds in Holdem Poker" he says call versus 2 or more limpers in late position in a full ring game,

If this is a profitably limp in full ring, how can it not be in 6 max?

Maybe it is in a predicatable, not to aggressive game with calling stations that will consistently call there 2nd pairs to the river.

Id be interested to know if players do limp with these on the button with limpers in front and whether they are profitable.

Limp, raising is out of line with 3 limpers, unless blinds are uber tight and raising does more for you postflop than average here vs limpers

[Silverback]

Is raising even 2 limpers good here?
Doesnt seem good to me, builds a bigger pot for other draws to draw to, and also builds a bigger pot that others might want to fight for, and A8, A9 doesnt seem worthy to me.


Also, if limping is ok, what is lowest Ax to limp, as with this many limpers the Ax hands are similar in value,

[me454555]

A few things you gotta realize is that 6 max is usually more agressive than a full ring game so when 3 people limp, you can be pretty sure they don't have AK, AQ, AJ so the hands that dominate you go down dramitcally b/c people are extremely likely to raise these hands as well as other high card combinations that you don't like to see. The truth of the matter is that you're more likely to dominate someon limping w/Ax than they are to be dominating you. On top of that, if you hit your kicker, you're still in a pretty good position.

On top of that, getting 4.5:1 on your money w/position is still pretty good even if they check fold the flop.