Ace Jack on the button

[jwvdcw]

I se that theres some debate on the best play preflop here. As I said, I easily fold AJos to a 3x BB raise early. With your stack and the blinds still low, you had no need to make a move anytime soon. At this point in the tourney you're looking to win big hands and avoid trouble spots that may cost you big pots. What type of hand could you possibly envision him having hat is likely to result in you win? Ace-rag? Yet I can envision a ton of hands )AQ, AK, QQ, KK, or AA) that could put you in a huge touble spot. Avoid situations like these by folding preflop, and don't use the fact that this guy has beeen playing loosely as an excuse for you to make marginal calls. Patience. Its early in the tourney, and you have tons of time to trap this guy late on.

[Exitonly]

you seriously can't come up with hands that AJ would have beat here?

Folds to teh CO, an already loose player, he could have a HUGE range of hands here. A fold isn't a bad play, but i think a better play would be a raise.. i think even a push is better than folding though.

It is the second stage of the tournament. You should not take priority in worrying about blind stealing and opponent's possible attempt at blind stealing for 50 chips on the cutoff AT THIS POINT IN TIME. AJo is a garbage hand for THIS SITUATION, as in PLAYING INTO A RAISE. AJo is fine when folded to, and would also be fine when raised later in the tournament when people actually fight for the blinds. I seriously doubt hero has an accurate enough read on villain and rest of the table to answer some of your questions right now. What you end up doing is putting in half your stack, early in the tournament, into pot with Ace high without any real information by taking this line. He called your reraise preflop, and whether or not he is capable of holding garbage here is based on your read, a read which isn't good enough at this point in time for that kind of judgement I wouldn't think.

If you don't think a better situation than that will arise, you are likely wrong. Players overvalue AJ pretty heavily, and just like in the case of KQ, worst thing that can happen often enough is an ace or jack flopping.

I don't think folding AJ to a raise in this spot is too weak, I think it is a very solid play and the clear-cut best play in this situation. Once we have put ourselves in this particular situation, if opponent is a true LAG he will be calling that continuation bet on the flop quite often to see if you show weakness on the turn, so you aren't learning much by betting here(of course this is read based, but your read is what got you in the hand in the first place). A delayed continuation bet on the turn is much more likely to be scarier and successful if he doesn't have a big hand here himself and checks to you again on the turn, since you were representing a very strong hand preflop. Now instead of you showing weakness on the turn, you get to see if he does. If he bets it, you can get away for much less than you would have, if he checks it, you can make the bet now and will end up taking the pot down much more often than you would against a LAG on the flop. You represented a big hand preflop, and a check behind him instead of making a normal continuation bet on this KK9 rainbow board indicates you are either very weak (which with your reraise this early is very doubtful he can put you on without a significant read on his part) or aren't worried about taking down the pot you have bloated preflop on this street, and are ok with giving him a free card, perhaps in hopes of him catching something. Why bet the flop for another 1/4 of your stack and put yourself in such a bad position if called? Check behind him, if he checks you can throw out the bet as a solid attempt at taking the pot down. If he calls turn bet and then checks on river, you have a hard decision to make. You can check behind and hope pair of jacks is good, you can push hoping to induce a fold but not being sure if he is capable of folding a better hand. Checking behind him on the turn you show big weakness, and he may bet river with nothing, and then you have another hard decision. If he calls turn and bets river, you get to get away from the hand -only- losing half your stack.

He called your preflop re-raise, so your re-steal had failed*, why take this less-than-marginal situation this far this early? This isn't about waiting for AA, this is just about a bad spot hero put himself in by simply choosing to play a marginal hand into a raise early in the tournament, and it is a big leak in many players' game. A call PF here can get you in just as much trouble, although in this situation you would have likely saved hero some chips. Doesn't mean it is a much better way to play it though.

*With AJ, a reraise is more of a re-steal, which you can pull on a LAG that has been raising a lot of pots but capable of folding, where you don't really want a call, and its pretty early to be employing moves like that, unless once again you have some kind of remarkable read. A book can be written about the trickyness of AJ/KQ type of hands, and clogging up that one leak alone will impact your game big time. Being results oriented here, compare a fold to any possible line in this situation. You tell me folding here is too weak? Look how much trouble it would save you, and how many complicated decisions you get to avoid. Playing KQ and AJ into early into raises in similar situations like this will often end up putting you in difficult scenarios, just like it had here. I apologize for writing an essay about it here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] but this is the kind of recurring situation that costs many players many chips, and is an easily fixable leak.

[TomHimself]

i didnt read your essay but folding AJ on button to CO is very very weeak

Not this early in the tournament, although your positional advantage can argue a call.

[TomHimself]

yea it is

Read my essay. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
If he calls turn bet and then checks on river, you have a hard decision to make. You can check behind and hope pair of jacks is good, you can push hoping to induce a fold but not being sure if he is capable of folding a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

a river push is a pretty terrible idea.... i dont see how he could be capable of folding a better hand, villain doesn't have QQ+, and he's not folding a K or 66.

--

And back to the strength of AJo.

Yea it's a vulnerable hand, and definitely missplyaed often... but the early stages of a tournament you're supposed to push your edges and try and accumulate chips... vs villains huge range here, which i put at [22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A5o+,KJo+, QJo] and i may have even understated it... you're a 55% favorite.. calling gains no information and you probably have to fold to a non A/J flop.

so.. calling you lose value cause you'll lose to a continuation on the flop... and folding you're going to fold the best hand more often than not...

so i dont see how you can say it's a "clear-cut best play in this situation"

it's definitely not.

I didn't say a river push is a good idea in this spot, I said it is an option. To me, it wasn't a good idea getting here in the first place. You say folding isn't clear-cut the best play. Then what is? Taking this line? You yourself said you are losing value just calling, but taking this line you are putting half your stack in the middle with nothing. If I somehow got in this scenario personally, i'd fold to a bet on turn, or bet it checked to, and fold to a bet on river or check behind. But my line here remains a solid fold PF. If it was suited, I might venture a call like I said earlier.

[Exitonly]

You keep saying that he's putting his stack in the middle with nothign.... so you only play pocket pairs here??? You don't make continuation bets?

There is no clear cut play here. There are different amounts to raise to, or you could fold.