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  #11  
Old 06-05-2005, 11:27 AM
Rev. Good Will Rev. Good Will is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

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What's with the preflop call?

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I call there with that hand every time.

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seconded
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2005, 11:45 AM
turaho turaho is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

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I add my vote to the call this everytime.
It's a suited 2-gapper, there are already multiple callers and it's only half a bet. I pretty much call with any two suited cards here.


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Without UTG's raise, I agree... any two suited, as long as there's at least one limper in the pot. After a raise and with so many cold-callers it's a close call, but I'd be a lot happier if the gap was a little narrower or I had more high card strength before I made this call preflop.
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2005, 11:59 AM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

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My question is what do you do on the turn?

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Wish I hadn't completed a raised pot preflop with such a weak hand.

But, now that you're in, you've got two loose players in with you. Do you really think that one of them is holding AJ? A6? AA? JJ is a possiblitiy, as is 66, I suppose, but I think it's more likely that the PFR is holding A-broadway and the other is holding ace-rag. You have more outs to your flush than they have to their boat, so you call.

Yeah. If I've come this far I'm seeing the river and losing a lot of bets if I make my flush. But I just call hoping that UTG+2's raise slows down UTG on the turn.
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2005, 02:42 PM
aron aron is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

Sorry everyone!
I missed the PF raise.
Now I say no way I'm ever calling PF in this situation.

-aron
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2005, 03:06 PM
Redd Redd is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

I agree with toss; I fold this every time. This is too little hand to pay 1.5 bets OOP. Especially here, because an LPP UTG raise can only mean business.
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2005, 03:24 PM
grjr grjr is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I add my vote to the call this everytime.
It's a suited 2-gapper, there are already multiple callers and it's only half a bet. I pretty much call with any two suited cards here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Without UTG's raise, I agree... any two suited, as long as there's at least one limper in the pot. After a raise and with so many cold-callers it's a close call, but I'd be a lot happier if the gap was a little narrower or I had more high card strength before I made this call preflop.

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When I see a raised pot with 2 or 3 callers I don't care that much about high card strength. The more people in the pot the more the odds that a lot of high cards are out already. I'd rather have some medium cards that can make a straight or a flush.

I'd have been a lot happier if the flop hadn't paired like that though.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2005, 03:30 PM
grjr grjr is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with the preflop call?

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I call there with that hand every time.

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Why? I fold this there every time.

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Because I've got a lot of ways to hit the flop if everybody else has high cards. These are the kinds of hands that can get you those 20 or 30 BB pots. The 2-gappers won't hit a lot of straights but when they do it's usually pretty well disguised so you get a lot of action from the big pairs.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2005, 04:06 PM
grjr grjr is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour -COMPLETE HAND

Well, so I folded on the turn--which is HIGHLY unusual for me with a FD--because I thought there was a good chance the turn would be capped AND one of these guys already had a fullhouse. I probably should have realized that even though they were normally passive they still ARE REALLY BAD PLAYERS and could have just about anything.

I mainly wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who would chicken out here.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (15 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Td Th (two pair, aces and tens).
UTG+2 has Ah 7s (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 17 BB. </font>
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2005, 04:53 PM
jrz1972 jrz1972 is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour

Easy fold PF.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2005, 04:58 PM
jrz1972 jrz1972 is offline
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Default Re: Marginal hand #5 Flush draw turns sour -COMPLETE HAND

Also, I'm calling the turn. If I knew there would be no more raises, a call would be a no-brainer, and even if I knew it would be capped a call still wouldn't be all that horrible. If it were capped, I'd be getting 3.75:1 which is a little lower than what I ideally need to make putting in 4 bets correct. You also have to consider that I should discount my flush outs somewhat. Then again, I'm getting a couple more BBs on the river if I hit safely, so it's close. By calling on the turn, my play is good if its not capped and only slightly wrong if it is capped, so I'll take my chances and toss in a call. It's close though and I can't argue too much with a fold.
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