9/18 hard flop decision with JJ

[bakku]

last hand from the 9/18 Commerce
UTG+2 is laggy, like cold-cap AJo, raise QTo UTG, slows down to aggression postflop
SB is unknown
BB is loose weak preflop (limping AK 3 times so far) but seems ok postflop

I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG+1, UTG+2 3-bets, LP CC, SB semi-CC, BB semi-CC, I cap, all call. (5 for 20SB)


Flop is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB raises, getting 23:2 what's my action and plan?

[JoshuaD]

I'm 3-betting there. I'd like to get this HU a whole lot.

[mister]

I'd pump that on the flop to find out where you're at. You're ahead of such a wide range of hands. If he's as likely to 3 bet AKs or TT, it'll be hard to get away from this hand.

[Moozh]

BB scares me, but you're very likely ahead in a large pot. Raising the flop doesn't really do much for you, I'd prefer to call, evaluate the rest of the flop action and consider raising BB on the turn.

As long as no overs come, I'm probably going to showdown unless things get crazy. If BB three-bets me on the turn, I'm calling down. If a spade comes on the turn, I'm watching for a flop caller to come to life.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 3-betting there. I'd like to get this HU a whole lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Josh,

What does 3-betting the flop accomplish? this pot is huuuuge and UTG+2 is still to act.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 3-betting there. I'd like to get this HU a whole lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Josh,

What does 3-betting the flop accomplish? this pot is huuuuge and UTG+2 is still to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said he slows down to aggression postflop, I figured that meant he might fold to a 3-bet. You've got 2 acting behind you, if you can get either or both to fold by 3-betting, I think it's worthwhile.

[KDawgCometh]

I think that I'm three betting here to try to get it HU. Its very possible that the BB has a hand like 77,88,99, or could have AKs, which would suck for your hand. But I think shutting out the sb and the LAG here is a smart move

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
last hand from the 9/18 Commerce
UTG+2 is laggy, like cold-cap AJo, raise QTo UTG, slows down to aggression postflop
SB is unknown
BB is loose weak preflop (limping AK 3 times so far) but seems ok postflop

I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG+1, UTG+2 3-bets, LP CC, SB semi-CC, BB semi-CC, I cap, all call. (5 for 20SB)


Flop is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB raises, getting 23:2 what's my action and plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone says to 3-bet the flop but I disagree. This isn't a particularly good board and there a lot of cards I don't want to see on the turn. The pot is huge so 3-betting isn't likely to fold out anything I want to fold against these loose bastards. UTG+2 does slow down postflop but that doesn't mean he's going to fold overcards. I guess 3-betting and hoping he caps wouldn't be bad but I think calling and intending to raise a safe turn when my equity goes up is best.


So I called 2 cold intending to raise the turn, UTG+2 3-bet, LP folded, SB caps, BB calls, I call. (4 for 18BB)

What's my turn plan now?

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
What's my turn plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the card that falls. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

edit: To clarify: I hate going into hypotheticals over the different types of cards that can fall. Everything has already happened, so let's see what falls and re-evaluate.

[private joker]

I like 3-betting to define your hand and to see if it gets capped. If it does, and by someone other than UTG+2, you can fold a non-J turn.

Given that you didn't and it got capped by the blinds anyway, it's a turn fold UI. You don't have the best hand and don't have the odds to improve -- especially because it will cost you multiple bets to see the river, likely.