KJo

[Lost Wages]

I would pick a better spot to continue with overcards. There is a 3 straight and a two tone board (you have no flush card). In addition, two players have shown strength, the BB by betting into the preflop raiser and MP by calling with the preflop raiser yet to act. You only have the odds to see the turn if you are sure that you overcards will be good.

Lost Wages

[StellarWind]

Preflop depends on the read on MP1. Raising is probably OK with no read. Against a tighter player with high raising standards I would limp.

The flop is highly coordinated with a 3-straight and a 2-flush. BB is a good player. MP1 may dominate one of your outs with AJ or KQ. I think it's high time to get out before you get hurt.

Turn raise is routine.

The river check is completely understandable. It's also really bad. Most of the time a straight will bet instead of checkraising because they don't expect you to bet with a 4-straight on board. When they check to you in last position you have the green light to bet top pair for value. They will call you down with one pair lest you have two big cards.

Sometimes you will lose this bet but that's the way it goes. Just keep betting and you will make a lot of money in the long run. Actually the biggest risk may be that the five made something like two pair that they are afraid to bet.

[Garbonzo]

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The river check is completely understandable. It's also really bad. Most of the time a straight will bet instead of checkraising because they don't expect you to bet with a 4-straight on board. When they check to you in last position you have the green light to bet top pair for value. They will call you down with one pair lest you have two big cards.



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I was thinking about this hand on the way up the elevator. I was wondering how often people go for a check raise here....and wondering how many bets I lose checking behind too often.

I also wonder how often you get called down here with a losing hand. I 'feel' like the river bet is marginal +EV, and that in this situation you do not lose 'much' checking behind. Am I way off base?

[StellarWind]

Did the converter do this hand? The bet count is wrong on the flop and MP's preflop closing call is lost. Might want to send the HH to Bisonbison.

[SinCityGuy]

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getting 7.5:1 closing the action with 6 decent outs? I call this as well.

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The outs are likely clean. With AK, there's more of a chance you'll run into aces up if you catch an ace.

[Haupt_234]

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with a four straight on the board after raising the turn, anyone who made their straight could be looking to c/r - I certainly would If I was last to act before hero - I think I check this through as well.


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Then you are missing value bets. With only 2 people in the pot, one whom bet the flop, I am betting the river everytime here.

Haupt_234

[StellarWind]

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I also wonder how often you get called down here with a losing hand. I 'feel' like the river bet is marginal +EV, and that in this situation you do not lose 'much' checking behind. Am I way off base?

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This mistake probably costs only a small fraction of a BB because sometimes you lose and often they don't call. The problem is this situation comes up constantly and the loss becomes huge if you routinely fail to bet.

Another advantage to betting this specific time is I don't really want to show this hand down. It's a small victory just to make them fold their busted draws.

A third reason to bet is the long-term effect on good players like BB. I want him to know that if he decides to look me up he is going to have to pay on every street. It's a lot easier to bluff the flop when your opponent understands that calling you down with 22 will cost 2.5 BB.

[Garbonzo]

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I also wonder how often you get called down here with a losing hand. I 'feel' like the river bet is marginal +EV, and that in this situation you do not lose 'much' checking behind. Am I way off base?

[/ QUOTE ]
This mistake probably costs only a small fraction of a BB because sometimes you lose and often they don't call. The problem is this situation comes up constantly and the loss becomes huge if you routinely fail to bet.

Another advantage to betting this specific time is I don't really want to show this hand down. It's a small victory just to make them fold their busted draws.

A third reason to bet is the long-term effect on good players like BB. I want him to know that if he decides to look me up he is going to have to pay on every street. It's a lot easier to bluff the flop when your opponent understands that calling you down with 22 will cost 2.5 BB.

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Thank you for the response. This is a very important for me to understand in my overly leaky game.

Another question, I would think that KJ is not a hand I mind showing down from a button raise. KJ is a legitimate button steal hand, no?

[Lost Wages]

Why would you not want to show this hand down? I would love to show it.

Lost Wages

[Vazh]

Thanks for all the great replies.

MP had 6d Ad
BB took it down with 7h 6s and the flopped 2-pair

I value bet this river 95% of the time. In this case I didn't like BB's flop bet. He was good enough that he would bet a made hand into me, but I couldn't discount a drawing hand either. I don't think he would bet the turn with a draw though, so when he calls my turn raise I put him on almost exactly 2-pair since he would have reraised anything better. Given that, I didn't bet the river.

Edit: a pair with a draw is another reasonable holding for BB.