A couple KK hands

Vazh · #1 07-05-2004, 05:37 PM

1. In the first one of course I give thought to the SB betting a flush on both the flop and river. When he 3bets the turn he obviously has it. My turn raise was intended to pressure the SB while charging the button in case he held a big diamond.

I'm most interested in what you would do on the turn and whether or not you payoff the river.

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls,

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (17 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Kh Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Button shows 3d 4d (flush, king high).
SB shows 5d 8d (flush, king high).
Outcome: SB wins 20 BB. 

2. BB's turn 3-bet looks to me like it might be a guy on a flush draw who thinks it's going to get capped so he might as well raise himself. I'm not nearly as worried about UTG+1. I quit shortly after this because I didn't think I was making good decisions.

Do you bet the river?

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls,

Flop: (6.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows 9s 6h (two pair, nines and sixes).
Hero shows Kc Kd (three of a kind, kings).
UTG+1 doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins 15.75 BB.

brick · #2 07-06-2004, 04:58 AM

I like ther way you played these hands.

Hand 1. I would make the river call too. (big pot, players are crazy, I'm not that good)

Hand 2. I would bet the river if it were heads-up on the turn.

jt1 · #3 07-06-2004, 05:05 AM

Hand 1: no problem. He'll have the flush only slightly more often than he'll have 2 pair here.

Hand 2: You've got to bet that river!

DeeJ · #4 07-06-2004, 05:37 AM

Hand 1: I don't think like you do. Why would both opponents stay in for 3 big bets with the possibility flush out there against them? Either because they have the flush themselves or a very good hand (JQ or 78 both make straights here). It would be a good lay-down though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] but against solid opponents? Maybe not so difficult. But it difficult to see SB betting again on the river unless he's got something that beats you.

Hand #2: I don't follow your logic. The turn card was probably good for BB somehow. Against multiple opponents, I don't see players raising flush draws, they want to hit their flush cheaply and then raise. Heads up they do raise the turn sometimes to try to take the pot but more often it's because they have a good hand.... without the flush, I'm betting all the way.

jt1 · #5 07-06-2004, 06:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
it difficult to see SB betting again on the river unless he's got something that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can think of nine hands that the SB could easily have that don't beat our Hero.

Vazh · #6 07-06-2004, 09:46 AM

Yeah, I agree I have to bet the river, which is why I quit soon after. I had been CR'd a lot during this session and was a little tired of it. This is the only big hand where I didn't make this bet, and it's the only one I won. Ahhhh, irony.... (Irony as defined by Alannis Morisette sp?)

Vazh · #7 07-06-2004, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Against multiple opponents, I don't see players raising flush draws, they want to hit their flush cheaply and then raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see people cap flush draws all the time, not just in HU situations. The problem was I didn't have a good enough read on this guy to know if he would do that or not.