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  #1  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:01 PM
pokerjunky pokerjunky is offline
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Default How do you handle the LAG tards?

In a previous hand where villain and I were heads up after I raised PF with ATs, villain bet out on an ace jack high flop and I raised. He called and check raised the turn, I called down and he showed down pocket sixes and MHWG.

So now I dont know if I should make marginal call downs against this guy for the rest of the session or not. These types of players give me the worst trouble which is why I'm a little leary of giving six max a try.

PokerRoom 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero....?
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2005, 10:33 PM
Scotch78 Scotch78 is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

This hand reminds me of the saying about a little knowledge being dangerous. You know that your opponent is capable of bluff check-raising, but not how often he'll do it. In such a small pot, you would need to know that percentage very accurately in order to make the correct decision, which means you are much more likely to make the wrong choice and cost yourself money. In a big pot, where your opponent's equity is worth several BBs, it can be worth the risk to avoid giving a free card. However, this pot is small enough that you're much better off checking behind and calling a river bet.

Scott
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2005, 11:23 PM
shark6 shark6 is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

I'd bet the turn and try for the free showdown like you did. If you are ahead, and you are a very good percentage of the time against this guy, it would be bad to give a free card. It's just too bad in this hand that he check/raised you on the turn.

On this hand you have less than second pair and only 2 outs to improve. You get 3.5-1 to call down. I don't think that's quite good enough for me to look him up again. Plus, you'll have plenty of better chances to get his money.

Yes, you should call him down with marginal hands. But I'd like a little better hand or odds than is presented in this case.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2005, 11:30 PM
Scotch78 Scotch78 is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

[ QUOTE ]
it would be bad to give a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. In this tiny pot it takes roughly 10 outs to have an equity worth 1 BB.

Scott
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2005, 11:40 PM
shark6 shark6 is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it would be bad to give a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. In this tiny pot it takes roughly 10 outs to have an equity worth 1 BB.

Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that you're also giving a free card to BB. I think it's worth taking a stab at the pot on the flop, then betting the turn because you only got called by the LAG, then checking behind on the river.

I'm not checking the flop just because I might get bluff check/raised.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:01 AM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

I'd call down, expecting to once again see a smaller PP or a busted draw (assuming it stays busted after the river). Either that or a serious monster, but I don't know that he'd be able to contain himself on the flop if he'd hit one of those (unless he was holding 22, of course).

The line that he took on the previous hand you mentioned was just plain stupid, as you're well aware--until he shows me that he's capable of playing with a little more finesse, I'm not going to respect any of his other moves, either.

And, as was already mentioned in the thread, if you felt the need to fold to a turn c/r, you should've just checked through with the intention of calling a river bet. Yeah, you're going to be giving a free card to a live draw pretty often that way, but against this opponent, you're going to collect a lot of river bluffs, too.

Regarding the pot odds that Hero is getting to call down in this smallish pot: you have to include the odds that your opponent is bluffing as well, particularly against a player that has already demonstrated the ability to make repeated, outright stupid bluffs in the past. Against a normal opponent this an obvious fold to the turn c/r--against this opponent, this is an obvious calldown because Hero is going to be good (at least on the turn) pretty damn often here. Factor in the metagame aspects of it (tilting this particular player, discouraging other players at the table from bluffing) and I don't feel particularly bad at all about putting in two more bets on this one.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:19 AM
Entity Entity is offline
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Default Re: How do you handle the LAG tards?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it would be bad to give a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. In this tiny pot it takes roughly 10 outs to have an equity worth 1 BB.

Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot isn't tiny and it depends on how often he'll bluff c/r or bluff the river if you check behind on the turn.

Unless he's habitually LAGGY, I fold to the c/r here.

Rob
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