44 hand

[irishpint]

Absolute 3/6 Villian is 18/13 and I've seen him playing aggressive- he likes to be in charge.

I open w/ 44 (no spade) in the CO and the BB calls.
Flop comes 235 all spades and I'm c/r...give me a line. Mine is below.



I called the c/r with the intention of folding if a spade fell and raising any none spade. a none spade fell, he lead and I raise and he folded. thoughts?

[Spook]

I call the flop raise and try to push a favorable turn card where our edge will be greater. (red nine)
If check/raised on the turn, three bet and fold.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
I call the flop raise and try to push a favorable turn card where our edge will be greater. (red nine)
If check/raised on the turn, three bet and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

call flop c/r and raise a safe turn...that was mine line, too.

[TStoneMBD]

im bumping this thread cause its an insult that it only got 9 views.

this is a tricky hand and im not sure what the best line is. 3betting the flop doesnt have a purpose because if he has overcards with a spade your pot equity is a coin flip. waiting till the turn to raise makes much more sense.

turn raise looks good but i dont know how to handle a 3bet. i think folding to a 3bet is the major suck because your oesd could be drawing to live 8/10 outs. calling also sucks cause you could be drawing dead at this point and even if youre not you may only be drawing to 6 outs.

im not sure how many hands a sane villain will be 3betting the turn with here, but if you think it contains 1 pair type hands and flush draws id rather just call and get to showdown instead.

another problem with a turn raise is do you value bet the river? he could have a 2 or 3. he could also have a 5. the turn raise isnt going to get a better hand to fold unless he folds a 5. it could generate some folding equity by folding out a spade but most people are not folding a spade to a turn raise.

if hes just on a spade draw hes certainly firing another bet on the river. you could easily have ace high with a spade at this point, or just another big spade in general so his river bet has alot of folding equity against your potential hand range.

by raising the turn hes probably drawing to upwards of 15 outs so your pot equity is only 70% the times when youre ahead anyway.

therefore, i think i prefer just calling the turn and calling the river as well, but im not sure about that.

[Lmn55d]

I agree totally. I would just call because he'll bluff the river a ton and I don't feel comfortable at all folding to a 3bet.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . im not sure how many hands a sane villain will be 3betting the turn with here, but if you think it contains 1 pair type hands and flush draws id rather just call and get to showdown instead.

[. . .]

if hes just on a spade draw hes certainly firing another bet on the river. you could easily have ace high with a spade at this point, or just another big spade in general so his river bet has alot of folding equity against your potential hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the key metrics for me in the hand. A guy capable of three-betting the turn with a FD or other hands we beat, and I want to call the turn. However, a guy capable of leading the turn but check-folding the river with a busted FD we miss the better part of a BB by calling the turn ('cause he's calling our raise at the least). I'd probably default to calling the turn, because I don't think I encounter too many guys who are capable of making the flop-turn parlay and then not bluffing a busted draw on the river given the passivity I'd shown by going call (the flop C/R), call the turn. There are some of them out there, but few and far inbetween, I think.

[Victor]

so he laid down at least 5 outs getting 7:1. i think your line was perfect.

[irishpint]

i liked raising the turn because i collect an extra bet from a spade draw that wasn't going to bet or call the river.

[MrBig30]

[ QUOTE ]
i liked raising the turn because i collect an extra bet from a spade draw that wasn't going to bet or call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like TStoneMBD's reasoning better. You only win a fraction of a bet even IF he has the FD and wouldnt bet a busted FD at the river, because sometimes he hits his FD or overcards. And a 3-bet or river lead would suck a bit.
Calling down might seem weak but I like it here, except raising a non spade straightcard of course.

[toss]

I like Tstone and Catt's reasoning here. A bet/bet/checkfold line with flush draw is going to happen less than a bet/bet/bet line. We also don't have that great a lead on the turn if villain has a flushdraw and pair outs. Lastly its sucks getting 3-bet with our OESD on a 3 flush board.