Three-Betting A9s and Other Silly Shenanigans - Page 2

Aces McGee · #11 10-26-2005, 10:04 AM

Hey Dub

In position, this is fine. Out of the SB, I don't think I like it -- unless I had seen him isolate light at least once before. Some players just plain don't have this play in their repertoire.

The problem, as I'm sure you recognize or you wouldn't have posted this, is that you're likely getting it heads up with a tight, aggressive player -- and heads up against tight aggressive players are spots we seek to avoid, not merely seek. In position, you'll have a small edge over a player who is roughly your equal in skill, and it's fine to exploit that edge, no matter how small; out of position, it will be he exploiting the edge.

-McGee

krimson · #12 10-26-2005, 10:21 AM

The problem I have with this is that the button is only 14/9/3.15. His seems a bit rockish, and I'm not so sure that his raising range on the button behind a limper is as loose as we want it to be. I think this raise is more often going to be a real hand such as good aces or PP's. ie: most hands he is raising with have our A9 dominated. And we are OOP to boot.

If he was more in the realm of a 21/9/2 type TAG then we could reason that his raise is trying to isolate the weaker player and he could be doing it with hands a large range of hands, a number of which our ace is ahead of.

Garbonzo · #13 10-26-2005, 10:37 AM

W.

I think McGee hit this on the head. In the SB, this is not a place you want to be iso rasing from, and I would think EVEN with A-10o and AJo, especially against a player with the stats you desrcibed.

Iso raises are dangerous, and addictive IN popsition, out of the SB I think ISO raises, are probably rarely +EV, and almost certainly put yourself in many akward positions.

I think you hit the nail on the head in your intro. Preflop = bad, post flop = good.

W. Deranged · #14 10-26-2005, 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like your preflop fine.

What was your logic for choosing a stop-n-go on the flop vs a 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured a flop three-bet might open me up to a cap from an opponent with just a draw and overcards. I also wanted to see a blank turn before getting committed. I was happy to just check-fold a diamond turn without any further ado.

SeaEagle · #15 10-26-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I figured a flop three-bet might open me up to a cap from an opponent with just a draw and overcards. I also wanted to see a blank turn before getting committed. I was happy to just check-fold a diamond turn without any further ado.

[/ QUOTE ]
I probably routinely overplay these situations, but this is a pretty easy 3-bet for me. I'm not really worried about a cap since I'm generally ahead. I'm still leading pretty much any turn, especially the 80% that aren't diamonds.

The 3-bet and a turn lead will often fold out a single smallish diamond and I'd be happy to see overcards muck too.

[ QUOTE ]
I was happy to just check-fold a diamond turn without any further ado.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised at this. Since there's less than a 50% chance villian's got a diamond in his hand and the pot's giving you 6-1, I'd think a diamond on the turn would be a clear bet/fold.

#16 10-26-2005, 01:10 PM

I generally dont like 3-betting OOP on inadequate values. I think it is very different to cap when in position. So if I raise from the cutoff with A9s and the blind plays back at me, I will cap this pretty often for bluff value later. But if there's a bet and a raise to me in the SB and Im holding A9s or such, Im inclined to fold. This is just too hard to play OOP, particularly if the raiser is aggressive.

callmedonnie · #17 10-26-2005, 01:20 PM

Interesting hand. He very well may be trying to isolate, but with your position I really think AJ, maybe A10 should be the limit on this move. The reason is 1)you will be playing the rest of the hand out of position, 2)A9 really isn't a great holding here and 3)button will have a hand some of the time.

What is even more interesting is the way that it worked out. Your play to isolate the weak loose player forced him out, getting you HU w/ the TAG. I feel like he had a medium pair that he raised late to get position, or AK/AQ, with a diamond.

W. Deranged · #18 10-26-2005, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I figured a flop three-bet might open me up to a cap from an opponent with just a draw and overcards. I also wanted to see a blank turn before getting committed. I was happy to just check-fold a diamond turn without any further ado.

[/ QUOTE ]
I probably routinely overplay these situations, but this is a pretty easy 3-bet for me. I'm not really worried about a cap since I'm generally ahead. I'm still leading pretty much any turn, especially the 80% that aren't diamonds.

The 3-bet and a turn lead will often fold out a single smallish diamond and I'd be happy to see overcards muck too.

[ QUOTE ]
I was happy to just check-fold a diamond turn without any further ado.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised at this. Since there's less than a 50% chance villian's got a diamond in his hand and the pot's giving you 6-1, I'd think a diamond on the turn would be a clear bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, a little bit after I posted this I realized that the turn bet-fold is much better. One of the nice things about donking the turn is that we can represent a big diamond when villain doesn't have one.