When does raising top 2 become spewing?

RiverTheNuts · #1 10-13-2005, 01:50 AM

Who the hell check/raises and then caps into a field of 5 callers with anything less than a set here?? I went ahead and 3 bet the flop to drive out draws and see if Im playing AA/KK/AQ or QQ/JJ

If he calls I am leading, if he caps, I think about putting one more raise in, but end up just calling down because I lack a read and the 5 person check/raise I gave mad props to. Standard?

(PS - The table had been loose, and it was a party BBJ table and I want that 455,000 jackpot, dont hassle me about the coldcall)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, BB folds, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Borodog · #2 10-13-2005, 09:08 AM

I would probably put in one more raise on the turn and then call down.

PFR may have AA, KK, AQ and be having a tough time putting you on a hand that beats him, since you'd have 3 bet QQ and JJ and folded 66 and QJ. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

felix83 · #3 10-13-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably put in one more raise on the turn and then call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

mtdoak · #4 10-13-2005, 10:58 AM

Pop him for one more on the turn. Your ahead of alot of his capping hands here.

paperboyNC · #5 10-13-2005, 11:20 AM

I'd also raise the turn once again here. QQ and JJ are very unlikely. But the cap doesn't mean much. A lot of players (especially me) will almost always cap rather than call just for deception purposes.

You are often going to find an overplayed KK or AA.

SoSo · #6 10-13-2005, 11:29 AM

i raise the turn and only start calling down on a 3-bet.

callmedonnie · #7 10-13-2005, 12:33 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ going into call down mode after someone checkraises this big a field without a read. I think he either has KK/AA/maybe AQ or 66. When the preflop raiser checks the flop hoping to trap the field for extra bets he usually has a monster. I've been noticing more and more people doing this w/ top set. Especially since most players (even the donks) lead when they are the raiser.

I don't think I would raise because I don't want to get three bet. I feel like he either has us crushed, or as long as the board doesn't pair and he doesn't hit one of his two overcard outs, we're good. The problem for me is that I think villain will three bet in either spot, so we really don't know whether we have value or tossing in extra bets with a nearly dead hand.

Jellyroll · #8 10-13-2005, 01:42 PM

What about a hand like K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? It might be worth it for him to play a flop like this if he had equity 5-way. Probably a long shot, and the post-flop play doesn't follow up with that theory. But, it's something to consider in other situations where you're capped in a multiway pot where there's a draw.

Given the action though, I like the way you played it. I'd normally raise the turn, but I'd probably give him credit to a monster with that flop check-raise and play it like you did after the flop.

Jellyroll

TheHammer24 · #9 10-13-2005, 01:54 PM

I don't like raising the turn. I think you are behind more than you are ahead and w/o a solid read I believe call down mode is correct.

I think KT is a very logical hand here, and I believe that calling is not detrimental to our EV. If you raise he calls then check folds the river UI or bets..you call losing you three BB's 20% of the time and winning you two 80% of the time. (-3 x .2) + (2 x .8) = 1

If you call the turn there is a bout a 50% chance he'll bluff the river he if misses and he'll always bet if he's ahead. We lose 2 BB 20% of the time and win 1.5 80% of the time. (.2 x -2) + (1.5 x .8) = .8 BB. So it's not that much difference.

However, I also think he has a set a lot more than he has AQ here. I think calling down is fine.