Floorman ruling - you make the call

[mikehildebrand]

Your cards did not hit muck or another players live hand, right? OK, if another player, as this is happening, makes comments about no burn and this is veriied by the dealer, the action should be backed up to this point; where a sensible player would CHECK (before declaring all-in, to see your action), but that is another discussion, and betting should begin again at this point. The floor was protecting the game by splitting the pot and if you both agreed, that is an ammicable and table friendly thing to do, however, I believe a case could be made for your hand (but I guarantee, one person at that table, knowing "bill" would say that they heard you say 'fold').

[Al_Capone_Junior]

First off, the most obviously glaring problem here is that where the heck does this dealer put his burn cards? They SHOULD be tucked under the pot. Why was he counting the muck? Burn cards don't belong THERE.

Next, let's go one step further. There's one word, and one word only that should be uttered by the dealer in this situation...

Floor!!

There is no correcting the mistake, it's CALL THE FLOOR as the proper action. There is no leeway on this point.

Next I see another significant problem. Why was everybody but the dealer explaining what happened to the floor? First things first, the floor asks the DEALER what happened. ONLY if the dealer cannot offer a proper explanation should the floor be concerned with what the rest of the table has to say.

As for your action, here we are treading a thin line between significant action and the fact you were acting on an improperly dealt card. Sheesh! Did you guys dream this thing up just to torture the unfortunate floorguy that night? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I don't fault the floor for the decision they made. I have split the pot twice that I can recall, and each time it was in a situation where there were so many conflicting rules, concepts, principles, philosophies, and stories, compounded by major dealer error, that it was just too much of a beee-atch to figure it all out.

BTW, someone kick this dealer in the nuts for me.

al

[bodie]

I agree with Al - what a strange situation and the dealer should have called the floor before he decided to exchange one card for another. With everything just as it was: your cards just out of the muck, etc

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, no kidding!

What were you expecting, he was holding a naked low draw and perhaps a medium wrap? Come on!

Lots of good info here

Does the rest of the O8 board know that you've been lured over to the Dark Side?


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, someone kick this dealer in the nuts for me. - al

[/ QUOTE ]

I was off in my post above. I'd thought you would want to shoot the dealer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~ Rick

PS BTW. what do you do if the dealer was female?

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, someone kick this dealer in the nuts for me. - al

[/ QUOTE ]

I was off in my post above. I'd thought you would want to shoot the dealer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~ Rick

PS BTW. what do you do if the dealer was female?

[/ QUOTE ]
Kick her in the ovaries?

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
PS BTW. what do you do if the dealer was female?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm told that a kick to the crotch is still quite painful. Although your aim needs to be a little better as your target areas do not protrode to any significant degree

[phish]

I think your hand should be considered folded and dead. Fact is, regardless of the mistake, there was substantial action: he bet and you folded. Hand over.
To allow a replay after both of you have committed your action can lead to abuses that's bad for the game.
For example, let's say that it was your friend who noticed the error. If the action had been he bet and you raised, then he may have kept his mouth shut. But because he didn't like the outcome, he now opens his mouth and the hand gets replayed? Total bullshit!
There is a reason for burning cards, it's to make it harder for someone to see the next card dealt. But to turn this procedure into a technicality that must be enforced at the risk of the integrity and spirit of the game is simply idiotic.
It's one thing if the mistake is caught when no action has yet occurred, but to take back a card after substantial action is simply a procedure that will lend itself to abuse.

[gergery]

Thanks everyone, very helpful. I'll know for next time.