2 sites I found that are similar to PSO/Boogster. Are they reputable?

[ QUOTE ]
I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

And that truth is that you ignored the repeated mentions to use the support forum on the site that appear when you click on their "Contact Us" link. Furthermore, you have to check a box before it even allows you to send an email using their form that says "I understand support questions will not receive a reply."

Holding PSO accountable for your lack of reading comprehension is silly.

[grjr]

I AGREE. PSO has been great to me. It is very important to follow directions though.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

And that truth is that you ignored the repeated mentions to use the support forum on the site that appear when you click on their "Contact Us" link. Furthermore, you have to check a box before it even allows you to send an email using their form that says "I understand support questions will not receive a reply."

Holding PSO accountable for your lack of reading comprehension is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is held accountable for YOUR stupidity? My matter was with PSO before they had a website. Read PSO's last post. PSO existed before their website existed. I am an OG, friend, Not a 2 post troll. People with a brain, here on 2+2 recongnize that.

Future personal attacks in this thread will be ignored. With respect to PSO and our, now private, discussions, I am no longer reading this thread until I get a fast resolution one way or another.

[Orpheus]

[ QUOTE ]
My matter was with PSO before they had a website.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, okay, so it's ancient history--still relevant, but of much less immediate concern. Thanks for the clarification.

[LargeCents]

It has come to and end. My regret, only, is that there ever was a beginning.


PSO and I have completed "discussions". I knew how this was going to go, more or less, when I made PSO a compromise offer, which I thought was fair to both of us. One thing I did NOT expect is the level of PSO threats against ME. In short, PSO has advised me that they have hired a lawyer, specifically paid to deal with what I have written above, in this thread, and HERE . PSO has hired a lawyer, yes, you read that correctly. So, you will excuse me if I choose my words very carefully from here on out. I take this threat seriously. I am not a lawyer, I only know what I have said is true and I have no reason to lie.

My story, short version: PSO is the only online site on my "personal blacklist". I have done business with many many online sites over the years, often wondering if/when/how I would ever get what I had coming to me. Never have I put anyone on my "personal blacklist". In my eyes, all PSO ever was, is an Ebay scam, of which people needed to be warned.

The long version: Back about a year and a half ago, I was looking at Poker Chips Sets on Ebay. I ran across various offers where I could get a free poker chip set if I signed up for an online cardroom. It sounded fishy at the time, but I sent emails back and forth with the seller who managed to convince me that it was "legit". Months later, and many emails later, "legit" was only the first in a long series of smokescreens, baited hooks, and other broken promises. To PSO's credit, it was a one-man operation, as much as I could see, and the person in particular, whom I will not name for fear of legal retribution, seemed "in over his head", IMO. That's understandable. What isn't understandable, is if I had a complaint, it was always MY fault. The person that started PSO is still running things, 18 months later, and the "holier than thou attitude" still exists, IMO, if not to an even more elevated level. PSO, now, has grown into a big business, is my understanding. When I made my original comments, I thought I was talking about the same Ebay scam that hooked ME. PSO may have grown and evolved into a wholly different business, I will admit. PSO will forever be on my personal blacklist, now, after this thread's result. It should be obvious to anyone who reads this. But, you know what? PSO doesn't need me. They doesn't. I respect that. But, I don't need them. I demand that they respect ME. I am convinced that they do not.

Conclusion. PSO is over, in my book. This story has an end. It ends here. I will never open this thread again, as I expect to be flamed to the extreme by PSO and/or PSO generated trolls and/or supporters. This is fine. I have said my peace and now I am done. If I EVER maKe a reference to PSO in the future, it will simply be a link to this thread. PSO is now on my mute list as well. I expect them to challenge me in other threads, under gimmick accounts, trying to lure me into continuous traps with provocative lures. I expect the worst. I will not be trapped, again. I have been advised by personal friends here on 2+2 to not enter into a war with PSO like this, because I have nothing to gain. I don't. That's the point. But, that's not what 2+2 is all about. I have been lurking here for years, reading advice from more experienced posters. Now, that I'm the one with experience, I feel morally compelled to tell my story, if there's a story to be told. I will not be bullied into silence. I have thought about this long and hard. I am doing this for you, 2+2. You deserve to know the truth, as it happened to me.

LargeCents

[uaw420rook]

WTF, hiring lawyers. I wonder what court would take a case based on an internet gambling company against a internet Forum poster. I would hope both of you have kept proper records with the IRS before this thing is even filed. Jesus, PSO you have made solid arguments for your operation on here. Leave the little man alone. Another case were the Man has to beat down the little guy.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
It has come to and end. My regret, only, is that there ever was a beginning.


PSO and I have completed "discussions". I knew how this was going to go, more or less, when I made PSO a compromise offer, which I thought was fair to both of us. One thing I did NOT expect is the level of PSO threats against ME. In short, PSO has advised me that they have hired a lawyer, specifically paid to deal with what I have written above, in this thread, and HERE . PSO has hired a lawyer, yes, you read that correctly. So, you will excuse me if I choose my words very carefully from here on out. I take this threat seriously. I am not a lawyer, I only know what I have said is true and I have no reason to lie.

My story, short version: PSO is the only online site on my "personal blacklist". I have done business with many many online sites over the years, often wondering if/when/how I would ever get what I had coming to me. Never have I put anyone on my "personal blacklist". In my eyes, all PSO ever was, is an Ebay scam, of which people needed to be warned.

The long version: Back about a year and a half ago, I was looking at Poker Chips Sets on Ebay. I ran across various offers where I could get a free poker chip set if I signed up for an online cardroom. It sounded fishy at the time, but I sent emails back and forth with the seller who managed to convince me that it was "legit". Months later, and many emails later, "legit" was only the first in a long series of smokescreens, baited hooks, and other broken promises. To PSO's credit, it was a one-man operation, as much as I could see, and the person in particular, whom I will not name for fear of legal retribution, seemed "in over his head", IMO. That's understandable. What isn't understandable, is if I had a complaint, it was always MY fault. The person that started PSO is still running things, 18 months later, and the "holier than thou attitude" still exists, IMO, if not to an even more elevated level. PSO, now, has grown into a big business, is my understanding. When I made my original comments, I thought I was talking about the same Ebay scam that hooked ME. PSO may have grown and evolved into a wholly different business, I will admit. PSO will forever be on my personal blacklist, now, after this thread's result. It should be obvious to anyone who reads this. But, you know what? PSO doesn't need me. They doesn't. I respect that. But, I don't need them. I demand that they respect ME. I am convinced that they do not.

Conclusion. PSO is over, in my book. This story has an end. It ends here. I will never open this thread again, as I expect to be flamed to the extreme by PSO and/or PSO generated trolls and/or supporters. This is fine. I have said my peace and now I am done. If I EVER maKe a reference to PSO in the future, it will simply be a link to this thread. PSO is now on my mute list as well. I expect them to challenge me in other threads, under gimmick accounts, trying to lure me into continuous traps with provocative lures. I expect the worst. I will not be trapped, again. I have been advised by personal friends here on 2+2 to not enter into a war with PSO like this, because I have nothing to gain. I don't. That's the point. But, that's not what 2+2 is all about. I have been lurking here for years, reading advice from more experienced posters. Now, that I'm the one with experience, I feel morally compelled to tell my story, if there's a story to be told. I will not be bullied into silence. I have thought about this long and hard. I am doing this for you, 2+2. You deserve to know the truth, as it happened to me.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

LargeCents,

I’m glad that you decided to bring this back into the public forum. The folks from Poker Source Online have been doing research for the past couple of days and have been getting prepared to make a reply to whatever post you made. I’m glad to see that your lies continue here in this post, just like they did in the private messages we exchanged. What you also don’t know LargeCents is that we now know your true identity and have all the emails that we corresponded with so many months ago. It’s funny that you mentioned BonusWhores.com in your post, because your forum profile there was where we found our first clues needed to figure out your identity. (What everyone will find out in a little bit is that during all the PMs that we traded over the past couple days on 2+2, LargeCents would never tell us who he was.) We knew we were looking for someone that lives, or lived in Mondovi, WI and had interests in chess and coin collecting (From BW.com profile - I have a screenshot since I'm sure he'll tamper with that). Well, that information along with Google and our email archives where all we needed.

Since LargeCents made a carefully strategic planned post at 6am EST, we are unable to consult our lawyer, but I’m fairly certain that any correspondence that we’ve made over the past couple of days doesn’t fall under our privacy policy. So, as you read through this post you will see all the PMs we traded word for word, but I will only be able to give a summary of the emails we traded since I’m pretty sure they would be covered under our privacy policy. If LargeCents wishes to post them here, he can be my guest.

I will post the complete transcript of our PM conversation below if you want to read it, but I would summarize our conversation in a Cliff Notes fashion this way:

- We requested that this be taken to the PM system to work it out and for LargeCents to please respond
- His reply was to send him a chipset that was “owed” to him AND a copy of Super Systems 2 “as a matter of course for my inconvenience as time has lapsed, and bad feelings felt.”
- We replied back that we just couldn’t send someone that we had no idea who they were a these items as it could be a scam or extortion. We counter offered a free chipset AND a $250 AMEX Gift Card if he would tell us his poker room account name and let us look into it. If he didn’t get what he was owed we wanted to set things right and not only give him the chipset, but a $250 gift card.
- His reply was that his final offer stood and that we had 24 hours to send the chipset or he would post in the forum.
- A couple other PMs exchanged where we pleaded for his username, but it was of no use. We notified him that we consulted out attorney just incase this was a) a competitor trying to make us look bad or b) someone who stole our identity. It turned out to be neither of those.

Again, you can see a complete transcript of our PM conversation WORD FOR WORD below. Now, again, I can’t past a transcript of the emails we exchanged due to our privacy policy, but I can outline them below.



3/23/04 – LargeCents contacted us about an offer we where running on eBay for a free set of poker chip in exchange for signing up for online poker.

3/23/04 – 3/28/04 – We discussed the terms of the offer and went back and forth a few times. LargeCents said he found a better offer than ours for two poker books instead of the offer we where running, but was willing to use us if we could match the other offer. We agreed to send him two books in exchange for signing up for online poker.

3/28/04 – 4/13/04 – We exchanged over 10 emails with LargeCents with him telling us that he was having problems with his Neteller account and he couldn’t get it funded and he would do so ASAP. A key highlight during this timeframe was an email from LargeCents on 4/9/05 telling us that he still hadn’t gotten his account funded. We explained to him that Pacific Poker canceled the free chips and book offer with us and if he were to deposit at that point we would not get paid. We asked him to deposit at Party Poker instead and we would give him $80 cash. This would cover his $50 deposit and still leave money to buy the books. He declined our offer saying that he was going to open his Party Poker account via someone that offered him a 75% rake rebate (I’m not kidding, I had to read the email 3 times to be sure). So, just so we are clear here, we informed LargeCents that we were not going to get paid from our partner because they canceled the program with us, but he still wanted to move forward with the offer AND WE AGREED!

4/14/04 – LargeCents funds his poker account and we don’t even bother verifying his account because we aren’t getting paid for it anyway. We just ship the books and hope to be done with this soon.

4/19/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that only one book showed up and not the two that he was promised. We researched it for a couple of days and had a shipping receipt that for two books.

4/24/04 – We shipped another copy of the book out via USPS Media Mail.

4/29/04 – We get an email saying the book still hasn’t shown up.

5/2/04 – We agree to give it one more week to show up since Media Mail can take up to 14 days. (I will admit that shipping the book media mail was really stupid, but we switch all our shipments to media mail at this time to save money on shipping since we paid for that out of our own pocket. This was a bad experiment that lasted only two weeks).

5/9/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that there is still no book. We agree to ship another out this time via Priority Mail with a tracking number! The book ships on 5/11/04

5/14/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that there is still no book. We look up the tracking number and see that it will be there the next day and to look out for it.

5/15/04 – We get an email for LargeCents that the book arrived. He also asks for a FREE set of poker chips on top of the two books “due to my inconvenience”. We tell him NO and that we are insulted since we didn’t get paid a penny for sending him a total of 4 books.


-------------------------------------------

LARGECENTS FIRST PM:

Dear PSO,

I'm going to make this short and sweet.

PSO is on my "personal" blacklist. I have done business with dozens of online businesses,over the years, never have I blacklisted anyone. From my posts, you can tell, I have no interest in PSO. If it comes up in conversation, I relay my own personal experience if I think the information will help someone else from getting burned. Obviously, I haven't had much too say. I have no personal interest in PSO one way or another at this point, except to not do business with PSO.

I imagine, I was one of your very first customers, as you seem unclear of my exact indentity. I'll admit it was a while ago, but the way I was treated, it is hard to forget.

Our current situation is this. You want me to quit bashing PSO, is my understanding. My personal motive, if any, is simply to illustrate my treatment in doing business with PSO, when asked about it. This current thread seems to have a lot of questions of me, which I am happy to answer, as I have time and inclination. I imagine, PSO, at this point suddenly has an interst in "silencing" me. Fine. Send me what I am owed, and I will agree to have a future response of "No Comment" regarding PSO in all future reference to PSO. Not exactly a glowing review. But, it is what it is.

If you want to go further, and have a review from me of more than "No Comment", I would request something in addition to what simply is owed to me, as a course of my inconvenience and time passed regarding this matter.

My request: the 500 count chipset that is owed to me, shipped. When the chipset arrives on my doorstep, my response to PSO with henceforce be "No Comment", if any response whatsoever. If you want to have a review from me that is more than "No Comment", also send a copy of "Super System 2", as a matter of course for my inconveniece as time has lapsed, and bad feelings felt.

This is my offer. I hope I am perfectly clear. You can tell I am very serious about my offer and there is no negotiation. Your answer is "Yes or No" to the offer. I am awaiting your reply.

LargeCents


OUR FIRST REPLY:

So you want us to send you a set of poker chips without knowing who you are or anything about you? I don’t think so. The answer to your black male offer is “no”, but we will make the following counter offer….

Send us your Pacific Poker account name along with a copy of the 37 emails that we corresponded via. You claim that you signed up via PSO and that we “screwed” you. Well, if that is the case then we will send you the 500 set of poker chips we owe you PLUS a $250 American Express gift card that you can spend on anything you like. That’s a lot better than a $30 book. We’ll send you that stuff not to “shut you up” or get you to say “no comment”, but because we would truly feel bad that you didn’t get what we promised.

I’m also curious… you said that you signed up with us before we had a website? How did you find out about us then?

PSO

-----------------------

LARGECENTS REPLY:

Dear PSO,

You already know the answer to your questions.

This is not a blackmail offer.

I don't trust you or do business with PSO. There is no negotiation. I know that you will screw me any way you can and your offer is only an attempt to do so. No I will not let you buy time. I will not let you "check into things". This has already been done and unresolved. If you want my evidence. I will share it in an open forum in 2+2.

My final offer stands.

LargeCents

-----------------------

OUR REPLY BACK:

LargeCents,

How do I know the answer to my questions when I have no idea who the heck you are?

You don’t trust PSO??? How about we don’t trust you as far as we can through you? We just offered to send you a set of poker chips AND $250 and you told us to go pound sand. You have nothing to lose, but you don’t want the chips and the gift card?

PSO
----------
HIS REPLY:

Mike Jackness,

I really don't care. It hurts that you don't even remember me. But, that doesn't matter to me anymore. I imagine we will go around in circles for another 37 PMs, if I let it. I won't.

If you want to continue to put words in my mouth, such as "pound sand", I think we know where this is going to go. I will continue to be an anti-PSO voice in 2+2.

You've slapped me in the face once. I turned the other cheek. You are basically slapping me again. In 24 hours, I won't be yours to slap anymore.

You've got 24 hours from the time I sent my original offer. Take it or leave it. I'm not playing games. I'm just sick of it. I'm trying my hardest to stay civil about this matter.

Good Day.

LargeCents

----------

OUR REPLY:

LargeCents,

I’m not sure how you expect me to remember you from over a year and a half ago when we have over 50,000 customers and have shipped over 250,000 items. I’m not even sure that I’m the one you were working with at PSO at the time anyway. Why won’t you tell me what poker room you signed up with (I assume it was Pacific since that is the only room we worked with when we first started) and what your username is there? I also have to wonder if you have the wrong people / site??? Are you 100% sure it was Poker Source Online you were dealing with? What is the PSO email address this elicit correspondence transpired with?

PSO


HIS REPLY:

I am speaking to Mike Jackness, correct?

LargCents
-------------------

OUR FINAL REPLY:

No, but he is one of my partners and is aware of the situation and I’ve been talking to him a lot about this. We genuinely don’t know who you are just by you saying that you had 37 emails with us and your 2+2 forum name LargeCents since that doesn’t come up in any of our databases. In fact, this situation just boggles our mind since we have truly always been about customer service. I just can’t imagine a situation where we would correspond with a customer that many times and not give them the gift they were due. On top of that you are suggesting that you knew of us before we even had a website. Well, that was the first two weeks we were in business and selling the free poker chip auctions on eBay. We had our website up within the first two weeks, so it can only be in that timeframe. Just to be clear, we are talking about March / April of 2004. To complicate the situation here even more, during that timeframe (in fact during our first 2-3 months in business) we always sent the free gifts to people even if they made a mistake just to build out business and not risk getting any type of negative feedback for any reason, even if it was the customer’s fault. The only exception would be is if it was a blatant scam.

There are only 3 situations that we can figure that you can fall in:

1. You are a competitor or some sort and are having a really good laugh about this. We’ve already contact our lawyer just incase this is the case to protect us. If this is the case, which I really truly hope it isn’t, we will do everything in our power to take this as far as we can under the law. This is our full time job along with 7 employees and something we take very seriously.

2. A competitor took our identity or Mike Jackness’ identity and somehow got you to sign up for a free set of chips or a poker book. This is also a possibility and another reason we contacted our lawyer. That is why I asked what email address you were corresponding with. Just so you know, we have NEVER done business anywhere with the exception of eBay and www.pokersourceonlien.com. If you “found” us anywhere else it wasn’t a part of PSO or Mike, Jay, or Peter.

3. We thought you were trying to scam us for some reason and just wouldn’t give you the free gift. OR, we had conclusive evidence that you didn’t follow the signup procedure.


I guess in closing if you are in category 1, then we are never going to get anywhere and we’ll see you in court. If you are in category 2, then I hope you will work with us in everyway possible to put whoever stole our identity in jail! If you fall in category 3 then I’m willing to defend ourselves in the forum. I’m not sure if you understand how our business works or not, but we get paid a commission from our partners to bring them a new poker room account. We get paid that commission ONLY if the player signs up correctly under us and plays the required raked hands. We’ve been doing this for over 18 months now and we didn’t build such a huge loyal customer base by scamming people. There just isn’t a situation where we wouldn’t send someone an item they were due.

If you do fall in category 3, or even worse are someone who we legitimately owe a gift to, I would like you to put yourself in our shoes. There is someone in the forum who will not tell us who he is, declined an offer that was 10x better than what he wanted, and who is coming off as blackmailing us. I ask you to think about what you would do and then think about how genuine our offer was with the gift card. If you are in category 3 we truly want to do whatever we can to help you, but we have to know who you are. I’m not trying to “slap you around”, in fact I’m trying to help you. If you are in category 1, we’re going to feel really stupid basically pleading with you to “help us help you”. That’s all we have to offer…


HIS FINAL REPLY:

Hi PSO,

The last message was definitely not written by Mike. I imagine it was written by the lawyer. How do I know? There wasn't a single reference to "sand pounding". But, in all seriousness, I am just a customer who got lost in the shuffle, somehow. I don't explain it. I am just telling my story. With all of those customers, hey, it happens. I am just so amazed that the talk has to the come to the point of lawyers, lawsuits, etc.

Your last message was extremely thought out and well written. It is the first message that I can say that about. I am again amazed that you have taken my case to such a high degree of scrutiny. Why did it have to come to this? Mike? You mention in the last message, that you sent out free chip sets just to secure your reputation. I just don't see it. I just don't. Not the way my case was handled. I'm just coming off a 5 hour online poker session, so I am a bit frazzled. But, I just don't know how it had to come to this. I just don't. Even if I believe everything you say. But, after all of the lies, I just can believe you anymore PSO. I can't trust you.

That's the point. I can't trust a single thing you guys say. Results is all the really matters, isn't it? The results of my case were badly handled, and I have never made it a secret. PSO response? YOU are the problem. YOU must've did something wrong, because WE are perfect. These is the prevailing thought processes of PSO. Of course, I oversimply, perhaps. But, not by much.

To the lawyer: Let Mike show you the 2+2 thread that has lead us to this point. Read it. Ask him how it has come to this. You seem intelligent, logical, etc. How has it come to this point? Involving lawyers? I am a disgruntled customer who didn't get his poker chip set? Suddenly a lawyer becomes involved. I am flattered, actually, but it doesn't makes sense. It just doesn't.

Obviously, most of you at PSO are missing about 2 months and dozens of emails of correspondence between Mike and myself. I don't know if Mike is purely a support guy, or if he is the main guy. I assume the latter. If not, dude, I am so sorry if you get canned or anything. But, put yourself in MY shoes.

I was a customer, did my part, didn't like the way things went, and I tell my story. What have I done wrong? The point of this entire exchange is that you don't want me speaking badly about PSO. I can respect that. You've got a business, you trade on your credibility, etc. But, you know what, you don't have a monopoly on credibility. 2+2 is a place where we can exchange ideas, etc. If I had a bad experience, I tell my friends... That's how the real world works. If I go to the McDonald's down the street and get a bad milkshake, you bet I'm gonna tell people, if it comes up. Does McDonald's climb up my ass and demand satisfaction? Think about it.

I don't know where I am going with this specific PM. I just don't get you, PSO. It isn't about a poker chip set. It isn't about a book. If Mike wants to come to my house and face me man to man and give me a formal apology, hey, that's all I want. I want satisfaction. I want PSO to say, hey, things went bad, or whatever, but we can move on. I have never gotten close to this type of line from PSO. NEVER!!!

You have my offer. We all know where this is going to go. I have nothing else to say. The above is just gibberish, more or less. My thoughts and feelings. But, I know that all means nothing to you PSO. You want a lawsuit. Well, sue me!

LargeCents

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF, hiring lawyers. I wonder what court would take a case based on an internet gambling company against a internet Forum poster. I would hope both of you have kept proper records with the IRS before this thing is even filed. Jesus, PSO you have made solid arguments for your operation on here. Leave the little man alone. Another case were the Man has to beat down the little guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, you might want to read the post I just made.

[PrincipalSkinner]

All this crap over a freakin' CHIP SET?? God, I hate the whole "affiliate" racket. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I was extremely apprehensive about the Instant Bankroll promotion offered by PSO. I am a difficult and demanding customer but was completely satisfied with the customer service I received. This is my only experience with their promotions but everything worked smoothly and I received my $100 after completing the terms of the offer.

One thing, I think many of these promotions and offers can be extremely complicated and I personally would hate to be on the customer service end given all the intricacies and nuances. I do think a negative perception is being created by PSO; even if it's not their fault. I'd rather pay Large Cents the money than face continued negative feedback. If his gripe is legitimate or not it costs your business the same to have him complain. But what do I know; perhaps this stubborn insistence is what made your business what it is.

Jeffrey (extremely satisfied with the Instant Bankroll promotion offered by PSO)