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#1
10-17-2005, 07:50 AM
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Correct ruling?
OK... players A & B know each other
Player A (UTG) raises to 15, Player B sitting next to A calls as do 2 others, then I raise to 55 from the button.... the blinds fold... now player A holds his cards out where player B can obviously see them (the entire table sees B look) and looks at B... so now I say to the dealer... "C'mon... B still has cards", B looks down and quickly mucks his cards, but the dealer kills A's hand as well... Was this the correct ruling... the floor backed the dealer... and A & B left pissed! 
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#3
10-17-2005, 11:49 AM
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Re: Correct ruling?
Incorrect ruling. Floor should have kicked A in the nuts instead.
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#4
10-17-2005, 12:08 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
Player A cheats by showing his cards to a select player among several in the hand and Player B then mucks out of turn. Player A's hand is called dead because he cheated. And A & B are pissed? I don't get it.
The ruling was correct.
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#5
10-17-2005, 01:19 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
Most rooms have a rule---- you show your hand before the show down the hand is dead-----sounds like the room just went by the rules of the room---- [/ QUOTE ] If that is the rules of the room you're playing in, then they went by them correctly. Other rooms have a "show one show all" rule. Essentially, you could play your cards face up for the whole table to see. Managers decision is final and WTF is player B pissed about? He folded.
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#6
10-17-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
Player A cheats by showing his cards to a select player among several in the hand and Player B then mucks out of turn. Player A's hand is called dead because he cheated. And A & B are pissed? I don't get it. The ruling was correct if he also kicks player A in the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] FYP
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#7
10-17-2005, 04:50 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
WTF is player B pissed about? [/ QUOTE ] He's pissed that he and his buddy got caught cheating.
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#8
10-17-2005, 05:18 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
well the "rule" that "your hand is dead if you show it before the showdown" isn't a rule at all. Rather this is a misconception that many have gotten into their heads that it's a "rule."
In TDA rules, it states... "A player who exposes his cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his hand killed." "Penalties available for use by the TD are verbal warnings, 10, 20, 30, and 40 minutes away from the table and may be used with discretion. These may be utilized up to and including disqualification. A player who is disqualified shall have his chips removed from play. " Few cardrooms actually have ANY specific written rule regarding this situation, and I highly doubt that any that DO would have it written that someone's hand would be DEAD. However, that doesn't clear up the misconceptions that abound with this rule. They are rampant. Your angle shooters are constantly trying to invoke this "rule" and your dealers and floors are confused on the matter as well. Of course a floor's decision IS final, but that doesn't mean it's always correct. A penalty should possibly be invoked if this is done in a tournament, although usually a warning on the first incident, especially if it's a small tournament with inexperienced players. Little should be done (other than perhaps a warning) in a live game. I personally don't mind the tactic as long as it's heads up and not multi-way, though I am not suggesting it as the BEST course of action. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Of course if there IS a specific written rule regarding this in your local cardroom, you should follow the "rule." Also, if there is a chance the floor/dealers are not up to speed on this issue, you should consider that too. al
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#9
10-17-2005, 06:23 PM
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Re: Correct ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
Little should be done (other than perhaps a warning) in a live game. I personally don't mind the tactic as long as it's heads up and not multi-way, though I am not suggesting it as the BEST course of action. [/ QUOTE ] Actually something should be done though it might only be a warning. In the case being discussed Player A shows his hand to player B before player B is to act on the raise by the OP. Player B folds. perhaps Player B would not have folded if he didn't see player A's cards. We will never know. You might not mind this tactic Al, but I certainly do.
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