An examination of session hands

WalkAmongUs · #1 10-17-2005, 10:09 PM

So after a 10k break even streak at 2/4 I logged about 615 hands tonight and ended down 35BB. I do believe this long break-even/downswing stretch is mainly due to variance. Looking at my stats, it seems that I am winning less with my big hands and losing more with hands that become second best (recently these hands are usually becoming second best due to someone hitting 2-4 outers).

I'm wondering if limping AA or KK and maybe AK should be worked into my game somewhere in order to extract more value. Does anyone else make these sorts of plays with any regular frequency? (aside from limping with these hands when folded to on the button, I already do that with some frequency).

Its the first time I've experienced a stretch this long so I am trying to examine my play. Aside from posting my entire session, here are some of the hands I lost the most on and some I won the most on.

Feel free to tear them apart. I need food for thought.

All opponents are your typical loose-passives at 2/4; about 30-45%VPIP/PFR 5-8%/AF of 1.5 or less. The games are fairly loose, usually around 30% VPIP with PFR of around 6 or 7.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button folds, MP2 raises, Hero calls, CO 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (20.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 bets, Hero folds, CO raises, MP2 3-bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 26.25 BB

Pretty sure I butchered this hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, BB folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO folds.

River: (9 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

MP2 was crazy LAG running 75%VPIP.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls $1 (All-In).

Final Pot: 23.75 BB

I think this one was overplayed. DEFINITELY didn't need the river cap at least.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO raises, Hero calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

One of the first hands I played at the table. Didn't know much about anybody.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero raises, Button calls, MP1 calls.

River: (15.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

Odd hand. Couldn't quite tell what was going on here.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, CO folds.

River: (17.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

Yet another odd hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

UTG+1 was likely to be betting overcards I felt. He was very aggressive and loved any kind of paint. Should have raised the flop if I was going to continue though.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

Another goofball who bets anything from overcards to top pair to gutshot draws.

numeri · #2 10-17-2005, 10:30 PM

Hand 1: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Fold the flop. You don't have nearly enough outs to draw here.

Hand 2: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Fold preflop. You're dominated too often here.

Hand 3: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Just call the river 3-bet. Sucks that you lost to KK, but there's no need to slow down before then.

Hand 4: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Fold preflop. Blind defense is tough, but this is a bad spot for you to defend as you have no idea what CO is doing.

Hand 5: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Looks fine.

Hand 6: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Ugh. I'm thinking JJ-AA are the only possibilities here for villain. There are 3 JJ combos, 6 QQ, 1 KK, and 3 AA. We're about equally way ahead or way behind, so I think you played it fine.

Hand 7: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Yes, given your read you should raise the flop. But what the hell's up with the turn? You do realize that you hit your set, right? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hand 8: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I don't totally understand your read, but if you're saying that he'll cap overcards, you should get another bet in on the turn. It's hard to say what I'd do because I don't totally get your read. Your line looks fine, though. Sorry if you lost to 77.

Final note: Too many hands. I'm just bored, but you won't get many replies with this many hands. If you want someone to analyze a whole session, join the session review thread and find a partner.

WalkAmongUs · #3 10-18-2005, 09:01 AM

Sorry, too many hands in the post but just wanted to respond...

Hand 1: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
You're exactly right, should have folded.

Hand 2: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
You're right again. Should have folded PF. Lost to QQ.

Hand 3: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Lost to QQ held by the same player in hand 2 not more than 5 hands later. This time at least he had more outs. Not much I could do here.

Hand 4: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I believe I posted early here. Lost to QK. Again, I just take my lumps.

Hand 5: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Lost to 67o...he doesn't raise even though he hits his hand.

Hand 6: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I actually can't remember what happened this hand. I think he showed down QQ.

Hand 7: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I realize I hit my fullhouse, but if he was betting overcards I didn't want to stop him, nor did I want to stop the donkeys behind me from overcalling in case they made a hand and we could throw a party on the river.

Hand 8: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Felt he was betting overcards. His raise/cap made me think otherwise and I think the turn call may have been questionable.

emitch · #4 10-18-2005, 09:16 AM

Looks like someone already looked at the hands you posted but I wanted to chime in on your question about AA,KK,AK. You are playing above my blind level, so maybe this type of deception is a little more standard, but from what I understand there is not a lot of difference. My short answer to your question about limping is DONT DO IT. The only time I feel that this may be right is at a tight table and it has been folded to you in LP, maybe limp to keep a few in to win more than just the blinds. But that said, I am moving away from it even there. I may be overestimating, because we always remember the bad beats, but more times than not when I limp with a strong hand, someone hits a crappy two pair to beat my premium hand. Make them pay to draw. If everyone is folding find another table and keep betting your good hands.

my two cents

mitch

numeri · #5 10-18-2005, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I believe I posted early here. Lost to QK. Again, I just take my lumps.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the convertor says you're in the SB, and it does look that way. It's odd that the player before you is listed as the CO, but who knows. Either way, you shouldn't be in the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 7: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I realize I hit my fullhouse, but if he was betting overcards I didn't want to stop him, nor did I want to stop the donkeys behind me from overcalling in case they made a hand and we could throw a party on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem here is that someone with overcards or another draw will (or should) just check/fold a river blank, but they'll call your turn raise. As it stands, you got very lucky on the river, but you still missed out on tons of bets. Who's to say that SB and/or BB didn't have xy[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and would have called 2 anyway? As they say on 2+2, "fastplay is the new slowplay."

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 8: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Felt he was betting overcards. His raise/cap made me think otherwise and I think the turn call may have been questionable.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's tough. You still have an overpair, and without a specific read that villain won't cap without a hand, it'd be hard for me to lay it down. It could even be something like A8s, if villain is very aggressive. Tough hand.

xenthebrain · #6 10-18-2005, 09:47 AM

Hand #1: Fold flop.
Hand #2: good.
Hand #3: Either call bet or call 3-bet (read dependent)
Hand #4: fold pf.
Hand #5: Ok, but I cannot believe you are good here.
Hand #6: good.
Hand #7: raise or fold the flop, after that it's good.
Hand #8: good.