Questionable rivers

Bill Smith · #1 02-22-2005, 04:17 PM

Last night's theme in a marginally losing session was the ugly river syndrome. Let me know what you think of these...

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HAND #1: UTG is tight and paying attention.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (7.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.20 BB

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HAND #2: BB is LAG (43/13/1.5).

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (7.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO folds, Hero raises...

J.R. · #2 02-22-2005, 04:46 PM

bad river card. what does he have you beat in hand 1, AT or KK? i lean towards check-call here

whay did you raise hand 2's river? This looks like a desperation bluff but more likely a river 2 pair or straight hoping to trap the CO. Would he expect you to check the turn w/out an overpair/pair quite often here?

Bill Smith · #3 02-23-2005, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bad river card. what does he have you beat in hand 1, AT or KK? i lean towards check-call here

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think this is a value bet at all?

[ QUOTE ]
whay did you raise hand 2's river? This looks like a desperation bluff but more likely a river 2 pair or straight hoping to trap the CO. Would he expect you to check the turn w/out an overpair/pair quite often here?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was probably a stupid raise, but I felt certain he would bet any Q here.

spider · #4 02-23-2005, 12:43 AM

Hand 1: Just check-call on the flop and turn. Encourage him to keep betting JJ or such while minimizing damage against AK or AQ. Maybe same on river but you could lead also depending on your read. I don't want to fold, so I'd say just check-call if you think you would fold to a raise.

Hand 2: I dunno. He could have a straight or two pair, but he could have also caught a queen while drawing to a straight or flush. He'd likely think the queen is good here and might want to lead. Probably best to just call as JR suggests given the difficulty of putting him on a hand.

Nemesis · #5 02-23-2005, 12:50 AM

Isn't Hand #1 a good place to call call call. Lose the least, win the most out of a trash hand? If he had nothing he would fold to your turn raise. If he crushes you he reraises.

Hand 2: I think that's appropriate.

jfresh · #6 02-23-2005, 04:39 AM

i probably would've gone call, call, bet out in hand 1, for reasons other stated. i feel check raising will chase out any non-ace, and you get kinda screwed if you against AK or AQ (or even A9, possibly). some LAGs even 3bet your c-r without an ace, so your kind of stuck calling down or making a really tough fold.

on that note, can anyone fold if you bet out on the river and get raised?