Aces flops a set: Now fold???

[lastchance]

CALLLLLLL. And push preflop.

[Hendricks433]

What would ever make you just call pf? I push this pf in aheart beat. Dont get fancy and let people out flop you.

[valenzuela]

push on both streets.

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Sometimes, people's stack sizes helps determine how likely they are to call.

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For sure stack sizes should always be taken into account but PF raises are better evaluated as multiples of the BB.

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In the situation where stacks are 800, sure, the odds are getting big enough that you shouldn't mind people folding. Deep-stacked, when you have a big hand you want to make a raise that your opponents shouldn't call, but will, that's where the money comes from.

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Bottom line is that 3 people have shown strength before you and you have the best possible hand that loses value with each opponent that calls you. In any STT I want to isolate AND get all my chips in if I think there is a decent chance of a caller. Sure, if it's a huge MTT and you have mountains of chips relative to the BB a big (but not all-in)reraise might accomplish the same thing with less risk of everyone folding.


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The post you're quoting was talking about the situation where everyone has stacks of 1500, that's even mentioned right there in the portion you quoted. Also, at 20/2's and below I see people call half their stacks and then fold the flop all the time. Don't assume all your opponents think logically or know what they're doing.


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I assumed the responder misread the OP as having 1500 instead of 800. And if the 20+2 players are that donkish, all the more reason to push.

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These hands (AK and KK) will usually play and might even reraise anyway. Now let's work on getting action from worse ones.

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There aren't much "worse" hands for your opponents than a dominated hand and an underpair.

I think the consensus is PF push.



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[Xhad]

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Bottom line is that 3 people have shown strength before you and you have the best possible hand that loses value with each opponent that calls you.

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Aces gain EV with every call, although you prefer not to have too many callers because variance also increases and high variance is detrimental in tournaments.

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In any STT I want to isolate AND get all my chips in if I think there is a decent chance of a caller. Sure, if it's a huge MTT and you have mountains of chips relative to the BB a big (but not all-in)reraise might accomplish the same thing with less risk of everyone folding.

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Even if it's an STT, there is no point in overbetting the pot by more than a factor of 3 when you have the current nuts. Even people who will call off 1/10th of their stack with trash will think twice before calling ten times that much and putting themselves all-in.

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And if the 20+2 players are that donkish, all the more reason to push.

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So you would rather they fold than give you half their stack? Even people who will call off half their stack with 56s won't call an all-in with it.

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There aren't much "worse" hands for your opponents than a dominated hand and an underpair.

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No, but there are many other dominated hands and underpairs that will call a smaller range but not a ridiculous overbet. I've seen smaller reraises called with hands like J3s, even a complete moron generally won't call a push with that. Smarter players will never call that kind of push with KQs, but they will often call a smaller raise. EVERYONE'S calling raise increases with "sane range" vs. "overbet" (though good players are more likely to fold to a miniraise since they will suspect a monster), and ANY HAND THAT CALLS IS GOOD FOR YOU.

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I think the consensus is PF push.

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In the case where it's a sane bet (like the original post), sure. If the stacks are 1500 and the pfr is only 150, that's just ridiculous.

hero needs to cut out the fancy play syndrome bullshit and re-raise with rockets preflop.

[Sciolist]

Personally, I will typically reraise to 3x the previous bet if reraising preflop. If that happens to take me to 40% of my stack, then I'll likely go allin instead. However, as you want a call and you aren't going to pass on any flop - except maybe KQJs - I am not sure if the 40% rule really applies here...

[Socrates]

Your friend sir is an absolutely horrible player obviously. With that said, yeah, he should probably fold and stop playing until he takes time to read a book or two or at least learn some of the basic aspects of playing tournament poker.

[Xhad]

Two people have already called the previous raise. The pot is already 375 plus the blinds, why would you only raise it another 250?

EDIT: fixed numbers

[AlphaWice]

Actually, if you dont mind variance, I think a stronger play is to raise an amount that potcommits everyone, then push any flop. You will get more callers with garbage, and they are calling a wildly-incorrect amount. I think this is better than pushing actually.

Ie., say you have stacks of 1500, raise to 1000. You still get all in vs big hands, but now dominated hands may call, and then fold PF when they dont hit (2/3 the time) or put the remaining 500 in when they do "hit" (but arent beating you), or in a pretty rare instance, flop trips etc., and then beat you. But I think the times that they dont outflop you overweighs the huge advantage to them bleeding for 1000.