Pocket Q's, 4 way cap pre-flop

[xenthebrain]

[ QUOTE ]
Now, after reviewing the hand and reading the responses, I could see an argument for a turn call, but not a river call as well. It really seems as though I was drawing to two outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, you cannot call the turn drawing to two outs.
But in my opinion, you don't make a big mistake if you would call down with QQ as an overpair everytime it happens.

[hicherbie]

folding this on the river after calling down would have been terrible. the pot at that point is easily big enough for a call.

[W. Deranged]

This is a good point.

One thing that is very important to think about whenever calling down with marginal holdings on the turn and river is that your plays need to be CONSISTENT:

-If you call the turn because you are drawing to a better hand AND you have odds to continue based purely on your draw, it is fine to call the turn and fold the river.
-If you call the turn based on some combination of draws and the probability you might be ahead, you CANNOT call the turn and fold the river. This line is LOGICALLY inconsistent. If you are going to be ahead enough to call the turn, you need to cash in this equity by calling the turn (and hence, you need to calculate whether your effective odds on calling the turn AND the river are large enough to merit continuing).


To make a long story short, you should not be calling the turn without odds to draw to a better hand unless you are confident that you will have the best hand often enough to call on the river also.

[2+2 Junkie]

So my decidsion here is on the flop? If I am calling the flop, I am commiting myself to the river. Is that the consensus?

[hicherbie]

pretty much. coming two bets back to you, you either decide to see a SD (barring horrendous runners and lots of action) or you muck it. even with reads, considering the opposition, i would tend to favor calling down in these spots.

[MrWookie47]

I agree that the decision about whether or not to see a showdown should be made on the flop once it's two bets back to you, but I'm still not convinced that hero is good 2 times out of 15, which is about how often he needs to be ahead to call the flop. What hands are you putting villain on often enough to warrant calling down in this case?

[hicherbie]

well, weve seen all the action remember? if this had just been the flop, would you really have eliminated AKc? i think we are beat after the cr, but i would still call the flop....and then the turn....and then the river.