think about this...

[mostsmooth]

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i'm right.

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this is true - you seem to be the only one grasping it so far. out of curiosity, what is your job/major?

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dude, i grasped it too!!!

[FouTight]

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The discussion in this thread makes me think perhaps your phrasing is awkward.

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I agree with this, the OP is a bit convoluted, but everyone is seeing this as some sort of runnign on a treadmill scenario, when it really isn't.

[Slow Play Ray]

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The discussion in this thread makes me think perhaps your phrasing is awkward.

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I think everyone here understands what makes a plane lift. The question is - can lift be created in this scenario?

My wording was intentional.

[Slow Play Ray]

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dude, i grasped it too!!!

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my bad.

[fnord_too]

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The problem with this scenario is that the drive isn't created by the wheels, so this belt wouldn't result in the plane not moving, it would mean the wheels would be moving REALLY quickly, but the thrust would still push teh plane forward.

This scenario is impossible.

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Yeah, the exact speed I think will be determined by the friction in the axels given that the wheels are not skidding in any way. It's hard to picture the forces in my head on this one, so I am not sure if there can even be any force acting on the plane to counter the force of the thrust, but I don't know that it is impossible. I was assuming it was possible since I was reading it as a given.

[Slow Play Ray]

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The problem with this scenario is that the drive isn't created by the wheels, so this belt wouldn't result in the plane not moving, it would mean the wheels would be moving REALLY quickly, but the thrust would still push teh plane forward.

This scenario is impossible.

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Yeah, the exact speed I think will be determined by the friction in the axels given that the wheels are not skidding in any way.

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I was thinking about this earlier, too. I think the wheel speed/conveyor speed would basically accelerate exponentially until the plane took off. Clearly this whole scenario is probably not physically possible, but it's an interesting theory to discuss.

[fnord_too]

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The discussion in this thread makes me think perhaps your phrasing is awkward.

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I think everyone here understands what makes a plane lift. The question is - can lift be created in this scenario?

My wording was intentional.

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So your basic question is "Is there a physical contradiction in the assumptions"? Thinking about it more, I think there is since you assume the wheels roll freely (i.e. no skidding). Angular momentum isn't a factor since those vectors will be perependicular to the direction of the plane.

[CrazyEyez]

This scenario is no different than if there was no conveyor runway but instead the breaks were locked on or the wheels were blocked. Sure there is some lift but not enough to take off.

[Slow Play Ray]

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This scenario is no different than if there was no conveyor runway but instead the breaks were locked on or the wheels were blocked. Sure there is some lift but not enough to take off.

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No - it's actually more like if the wheels were locked, but the runway was basically frictionless. Or even better - if the plane had no wheels and was just able to hover in the air. And it can certainly take off in those scenarios, right?

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The discussion in this thread makes me think perhaps your phrasing is awkward.

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I think everyone here understands what makes a plane lift. The question is - can lift be created in this scenario?

My wording was intentional.

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The question fundamentally is what force is imparted on the aircraft by the conveyor-runway. You are saying that that force is less than the force of the props (are you saying that it is 0?). I don't see how that could be the case from a standing start, but I'm not an engineer.