Do I cap this suited ace preflop?

[McNeese72]

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The initial pre-flop raise here is bad, IMO. You've already got 4 callers in front of you, so your pre-flop equity is extremely marginal, esp. with people potentially limping in with bigger aces.

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Depends on your opponents. In SSH, Ed Miller says you can consider raising after limpers with A9s and A8s if you opponents are loose. If they are tight and aggressive, then limp. The OP didn't give any reads on his opponents.

[ajm36]

I think your initial raise is fine--especially since you have position. The LRR from UTG+1 changes things, so you need to just call. Everything else looks great--nice pot.

Didn't see the turn bet the first time--just check--even if everyone calls there is no edge here.

[hornsandspurs]

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The initial pre-flop raise here is bad, IMO. You've already got 4 callers in front of you, so your pre-flop equity is extremely marginal, esp. with people potentially limping in with bigger aces.

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Depends on your opponents. In SSH, Ed Miller says you can consider raising after limpers with A9s and A8s if you opponents are loose. If they are tight and aggressive, then limp. The OP didn't give any reads on his opponents.

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I remember Miller saying this, but why? Also, it was a very loose table. Each limper >= 45% flops.

[McNeese72]

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The initial pre-flop raise here is bad, IMO. You've already got 4 callers in front of you, so your pre-flop equity is extremely marginal, esp. with people potentially limping in with bigger aces.

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Depends on your opponents. In SSH, Ed Miller says you can consider raising after limpers with A9s and A8s if you opponents are loose. If they are tight and aggressive, then limp. The OP didn't give any reads on his opponents.

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I remember Miller saying this, but why? Also, it was a very loose table. Each limper >= 45% flops.

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I'd say it was because A8s is a speculative hand and with a loose table you won't lose too many of the limpers with a raise in late position. You will still have what you want with a speculative hand, a lot of people in the pot. But I've only been playing since April or so, so what do I know. :-)

[hornsandspurs]

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I'd say it was because A8s is a speculative hand and with a loose table you won't lose too many of the limpers with a raise in late position. You will still have what you want with a speculative hand, a lot of people in the pot. But I've only been playing since April or so, so what do I know. :-)

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Anybody else? If you want to play your speculative hands in multiway pots and as cheaply as possible, why raise with A9s? Or is A9s such a strong "speculative" hand it is +EV to raise in LP with many limpers?

[afk]

Guys, don't pay so much attention to the preflop raise. The turn is where the real mistake is.

[silly_monkey]

*grunch*

I think the way you played the hand is fine. You don't give any reads, but when I'm faced with a limp re-raise I usually won't feel good with your hand. I wouldn't cap here. Also, if you cap its possible that it may be checked to you on the flop. What you want with your draw is for UTG+1 to bet and you raise. If you totally miss the flop you can just dump it.

[NobodysFreak]

There are 11.25 BB in the pot on the turn. It's checked around to Hero who bets. Assuming he has 8 outs (discounting the 4h) and 46 unknown cards, our drawing odds are 1:4.75. He bet 1BB into an 11.25BB pot for pot odds of 1:11.25. I think the pot is large enough to justify a bet on the turn and its not to force people out.

In a smaller pot, I might check the turn here, but that pot is huge now and it's likely to get shown down even when the case h appears. You can dump it when you miss the river and bet again when you improve.

I've read a few posts where people thought it was a mistake to bet here. Why is that?

[detruncate]

It has to do with who has limped and what their likely range is. You know that nobody has liked their hand enough to raise. Your 8 kicker will often give you the best ace. You'll flop a flush draw about 1 time in 8.5. The hand is further strengthened by the times you flop two pair+ or some sort of straight draw. You'll often have at least a backdoor draw to help rescue you when you're dominated. You have position + iniative to help you maximize your profit post flop.

When you don't think your hand has a clear equity edge but you probably have enough implied odds to play it you obviously want to get in as cheaply as possible. When you don't know anything about the strength of your opponents' hands (because you're in early position) you're usually better off limping unless the table is such that you should be folding these sorts of hands or raising more than usual from ep.

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Guys, don't pay so much attention to the preflop raise. The turn is where the real mistake is.

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Exactly. Why are you not taking a free card on this turn? Are you trying to buy the pot right there versus three other players? Given that board, there are a number of straight and flush possibilities, most of which aren't folding. Also, no one with a 5 is folding, and it's unlikely that a 9 folds either. As for your equity, the 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] may give someone else a boat, and someone may also have a pocket pair, so it's highly unlikely that all nine [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s are good. The chances of winning by spiking an ace aren't very good considering your weak kicker, which wouldn't even play. You'd be looking at a split pot or nothing versus another ace. Pairing your 8 probably doesn't win the pot either.

There has been a lot of discussion about the preflop raise, but I'm really curious about OP's reasoning behind betting the turn rather than checking.