QQ is not my hand today

Nick C · #1 11-20-2005, 12:32 AM

Which treatment do you prefer? I'm not crazy about either one.

In both cases, the presence of a really loose player in the pot seemed like it should be a consideration, but I didn't know what the loose player's presence should influence me to do.

BB is 20/11/3.7 after 228 hands.
MP2 is 71/32/1.5 after 210 hands.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (7.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

MP2 is 18/9/3.4 after 120 hands.
SB is 62/5/0.6 after 55 hands.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero caps, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

River: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

gh9801 · #2 11-20-2005, 12:42 AM

I prefer betting the flop, most TAGs are giving up with a hand like JJ on flop after hitting an AK flop against a preflop capper.

Give up on the turn.

Nick C · #3 11-20-2005, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer betting the flop, most TAGs are giving up with a hand like JJ on flop after hitting an AK flop against a preflop capper.

Give up on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's possible that this approach, which is sort of a compromise between the two that I tried, is the way to go.

W. Deranged · #4 11-20-2005, 08:53 PM

I don't like a flop check in hand 2 in a three-way field, because a high enough percentage of the time the other two will have missed and on a board that scary you'll just take the pot down right there.

I think we can fold the river in hand #1 in a protected pot against what looks like a semi-reasonable tag.

BriPlay · #5 11-20-2005, 08:53 PM

first hand how bout betting the turn instead of river?
second hand, if you dont bet the flop, (which is ok with raiser behind you, you can still represent AK..failed check raise attempt) then you should bet the turn. MP2 MIGHT raise you (he checked the flop to induce your bet?). I'd probably fold to a raise here.

brian

lighterjobs · #6 11-20-2005, 08:53 PM

Just had this one happen to me while reading your post. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

ArturiusX · #7 11-20-2005, 08:54 PM

Hand 1: I bet the turn here, you'll see cards like 99 peel here often.

Hand 2: Looks fine.

W. Deranged · #8 11-20-2005, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
first hand how bout betting the turn instead of river?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're going to put in a big bet on this hand I think you're right that betting the turn as "the last money we put in the pot" is much better than making a really thin crying call on the river. Personally I think checking both streets and clicking the "fold to any bet" button might just make more sense, though. I doubt we're getting bluffed at by gutshots and flush draws all that often. The sole exception would be if the betting goes check, check, bet, fold on a blank river.

Nick C · #9 11-21-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I bet the turn here, you'll see cards like 99 peel here often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do wonder how often a TAG makes a loose peel with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the flop, in this large pot. I don't know the answer.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I should have bet the flop. If the loose player hadn't called the turn, I would have been in an awkward spot.

The results from Hand 1 were influencing me, though.

Nick C · #10 11-21-2005, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can fold the river in hand #1 in a protected pot against what looks like a semi-reasonable tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doing so would have saved me a bet.

The TAG had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

The LAG had K6o, and I took third place.