overcall?

detruncate · #1 11-27-2005, 09:53 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Both Villains are fairly passive post flop. MP1 is 35.8/4.66/1.15/32.22/41.38. About all I know about him at this point is that he cold calls too much. The other guy is 56.88/1.88/0.82/32.69/47.06. Both have shown some aggression post flop, but nothing noticeably out of type.

Table is ok. Not a lot of pf aggression. Pretty average post flop aggression. I'm solidly negative and may have overplayed a few hands (I'm sure I overplayed a few hands, just not sure whether they've happened yet). Mostly I've been watching reasonably strong hands end up second best.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero ???

Can I overcall here?

#2 11-27-2005, 11:25 AM

*grunch*

I wouldn't. MP2 could have a busted draw or J high, yes. But chances are very good that MP1 has 2Pair or better and you are ahead of J9 only. I'd dump it, but I'm on tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

#3 11-27-2005, 11:58 AM

I think you'll see J9 QJ AJ, KJ even J8 or 88 from both of them more than 1 in 15 times.

detruncate · #4 11-27-2005, 05:37 PM

Do we really fold an overpair for 1 bet in a 15 BB pot?

detruncate · #5 11-28-2005, 06:26 AM

Every so often a hand comes along that makes me think about the oft cited maxim about not folding for 1 BB in a big pot closing the action.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Results:
MP1 has 8h Jh (two pair, jacks and tens).
MP2 has 9d Jc (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 7.62 BB. MP2 wins 7.62 BB.

I was understandably grumpy. Error or < 1/15 + too results oriented?

#6 11-28-2005, 06:58 AM

Its hard for me to make an unbiased decision given the results are shown. You have a pretty good hand. Bet on the river, its only 1 bet. Now if it were raised up by these villains then I would fold, but going all the way with this good pot and folding for one bet is not the way to go.

btspider · #7 11-28-2005, 01:45 PM

i'd call. you almost always have MP2 beat and MP1's hand hasn't been defined clearly yet. J9/QJ from MP1 is still possible.

Buckmulligan · #8 11-28-2005, 01:51 PM

Wow. This hand kind of sucks. I want to bet the turn for info, but that's useless, and I'd like to find a fold, but given your reads, I think I play it the same way. I'm just not folding the river getting 15.5:1

btspider · #9 11-28-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. This hand kind of sucks. I want to bet the turn for info, but that's useless, and I'd like to find a fold, but given your reads, I think I play it the same way. I'm just not folding the river getting 15.5:1

[/ QUOTE ]

you know he has a one-card OESD on the turn right? OESD + counterfeiting outs + possible best hand would make a turn fold to one bet very bad.

#10 11-28-2005, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*

I wouldn't. MP2 could have a busted draw or J high, yes. But chances are very good that MP1 has 2Pair or better and you are ahead of J9 only. I'd dump it, but I'm on tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OP has the best possible two pair on this board except for KK and AA in the hole. I think "overcalling" in this situation is irrelevant; the question is can we even call the bettor? I think most of the time he has a lone J, I'd call since the pot is big.

p.s. that was a semi-grunch before seeing the results [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]