Is this collusion or just bad play?

Stealthy · #1 12-23-2005, 08:18 PM

Just played at a very frustrating table and got totally owned by the LAG on my right. I was sure that he was full of it a ton of times but the main problem was another LAG 2 to his left. I would get to the river with my OK but not great hand and the first LAG would bet, 2nd LAG always raised and I would have to fold. 1st LAG then folded as well and 2nd guy takes pot without showdown. Here is an example.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (7.66 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP raises, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB

Both players were bang on 70% VP$IP but the one to my right was by far the more aggressive. This same format of river betting happened 4 times with me and I had to fold 3 of them but 3 bet other one when just 1st LAG acually had a hand and called me, the raisor folded.

I saw one other player get this treatment and he was also a TAG on my left. He 3 bet and they both dropped.

It is only after leaving the table that I have given it some thought and wondered if I was getting deliberately done over? I would be a good candidate if they were trying it as of course I can put hands down where others at this limit do not.

Thoughts?

mikeyworm · #2 12-23-2005, 08:35 PM

On first glance this single hand does not appear to be collusion. however, if the same thing happened 4 times then i would fire an email off to party support

Stealthy · #3 12-23-2005, 08:47 PM

Check out table 65536 a $3 $6 6 max table on Party. They are doing the same thing as they did to me. They are Vulpunu and Madonna133 and I have emailed Party support.

Stealthy · #4 12-23-2005, 08:52 PM

I am watching this table now and they are DEFINATELY colluding it is so obvious as an outsider. They both have a healthy profit and keep folding for 1 bet on the end once everyone else is forced out.

jba · #5 12-23-2005, 08:58 PM

did you email support yet??

Stealthy · #6 12-23-2005, 09:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
did you email support yet??

[/ QUOTE ]

I emailed info@party......

I suppose they will send it to where it has to go.

I just joined the table they were at and told the other players what was happeneing as it was so obvious to watch. One colluder left immediately and the other one played just long enough to deny it all as he was "from Italy so how could he be colluding"!!

oxymoron · #7 12-23-2005, 09:05 PM

Interesting...I'm gonna check my database at home and see if I have any mined hands from these two. I hope their accounts are frozen and all the people they have stolen money from are entered into a huge tournament for their money.

Stealthy · #8 12-23-2005, 09:09 PM

I only finished 6BB down at the table I was at with them mostly cause I was cold-decked but had a couple of biggish pots but I am still well pissed cause likelyhood is I would have finished a few $s up instead.

Not sure if joining the table to warn others was the right thing to do or not. Sure broke the table up fast though!

mxer7734 · #9 12-23-2005, 09:14 PM

I have seen this a lot lately at 1/2 6-max. I know most of the times its just coincedence but other times its obvious they are colluding. The last time this happened I had two guys on my table both had almost exact stats (80/30) coincedentally both lost their asses as I had a very good run of cards and their plans backfired. The exact same would happen as did to you, the first would bet the second would raise forcing out other opponenets and the first bettor would always fold.

One hand I had AA and both were in the hand capped preflop the flop came 789 first guy bet I raised his partner 3-bet other guy capped (hoping I would fold but I was going nowhere with AA) next card was an ugly 9 first guy bet I called next guy raised last guy capped I called poorly but considering the opponents there was a large chance I was still ahead. Last card miracle A first guy bet I raised last guy 3-bet his partner capped I call of course the guy who 3-bet folded and other guy called with K7 (this just shows what happened almost the whole session) I raked in a nice 30BB pot and was perfectly fine with them at my table.

I didnt want to say anything to party because it was benefiting me but I still dont think it should be aloud. Next time it happens I am going to have to drop an email off to Party support.

Stealthy · #10 12-23-2005, 09:22 PM

I have come across 2 guys just donking it out with each other at 6 Max but this is usually on every street. These 2 usually saved it for the river when they were first 2 to act before the hapless stooge got a say. Hard to call 2 cold on the end when you only have middle pair on a 3 flush board.

I noticed one is playing at $1 $2 now whilst the other is nowhere to be seen. Why would you play 1 table at $1 $2 when you have been killing $3 $6 all night? He is still donking a lot of rivers with junk so it does make you 2nd guess yourself, but I trust Party to have the knowledge to see what is, and what is not happening here.

They either both folded pre-flop or both called and had the exact same VP$IP numbers so I am fairly sure I am right.