22 vs. suited connectors

guyincognito210 · #1 12-02-2005, 06:49 PM

i was at cardplayer's poker odds calculator and i ran 22 vs suited connectors. JT fairs slightly better than 9T and 9T fairs slightly better than 89. none of these hands share a straight with 22? i ran them all not sharing any suits. only thing i came up with is having a higher card on a two pair board. meaning you would win instead of split with JT on a board of AAKKT whereas with 98 or 9T you would split. is this the only difference or is there another? i know this is negligible but i was just wondering anyway.

trumpman84 · #2 12-02-2005, 06:55 PM

That, and just think of any hand where you would play the board except for your kicker. A board like AAAAT, the JT would play. Or like an underfull..there are slightly more boards where trips get negated by a higher 3 of a kind such as 99AAA would be a split with 98 wheres TT777 would not be a split with JT. Or on a board with a 5 flush, there is less of a chance of all five flush cards being above a 9 of that suit than there is all five flush cards being above a 7 of that suit. These are all very very little things, but they all add up to make the slight differences you see.

guyincognito210 · #3 12-02-2005, 07:00 PM

top notch

#4 12-02-2005, 08:04 PM

Pre-flop hand showdowns are not transitive in all cases (thus not transitive).

In other words, just because A->B and B->C doesn't mean A->C.

ohnonotthat · #5 12-08-2005, 02:07 AM

Totally non-responsive but still an excellent point. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

He asked why 9-8 is a lesser favorite over 2-2 than T-9 is [over 2-2] and why J-T is a bigger fav. over 2-2 than T-9 is.

As it turns out he (almost) answered his own question; the only times higher is better is when the board shows two pair (or quads); when this happens, J-T will beat 2-2 more often than the two lower connectors will.

Note that changing 2-2 to 5-5 is an improvement in two ways - more [1-card] straights AND more wins when the board shows two pair (or a full house).

Having taken a cheap shot at MasterLJ allow me to now give him his due; he is 100% correct.

"Rock-paper-scissors" is common in holdem.

2-2 beats AK/off, A-K/off beats J-T and J-T beats 2-2

This is even more pronounced in multi-way match-ups.

You'll frequently see hand "A" be a fairly significant favorite over "B" and "C" but become worthless with the addition of [a fourth hand] "D" or [a 5th hand] "E".

Q-T is a sizable favorite over 5-4 and 2-2 but the addition of A-Q makes Q-T almost worthless and the further addition of A-T (which itself is in horrible shape) leaves Q-T with barely a prayer.