2 hands where i bet a lot

[climber]

Hand 1:

Button is unknown

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, Button calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

Hand 2:

UTG is 36/12/1 31% WtSD

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

So in both hands the boards keep getting worse and worse...or maybe its better and better...I keep betting...

Thoughts?

[Peter Harris]

hand 1 is the ol' clarkey on the river. I did this a lot tonight and people still looked me up with Qx no hearts. Bless 'em.

Hand 2 is like too. I think you should fold to a raise here too.

[jt1]

i have no clue

[Obliky]

Hand 1

I would have check raised the flop and taken it from there.

Hand 2

I like

[climber]

bump for the hard at work on monday aft. crowd

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 is the ol' clarkey on the river. I did this a lot tonight and people still looked me up with Qx no hearts. Bless 'em.


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah we're behind Qx no hearts. check/fold the river.. he is calling you down with something and it is going to be a heart or a Q or better 9 or a naked ace and I think you're getting basically no value here and should just fold this hand, I don't think you're good 1/8 of the time on this board at all.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 is like too. I think you should fold to a raise here too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like Hand 2 fine. agree with Pete to fold to a raise.

[kidcolin]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 is the ol' clarkey on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not it's not. The clarkmeister is the most misunderstood concept of all time. It was orginally with a set, first to act, and a rivered 4 flush. The idea is you have a really strong hand, and some fold equity. Here, the value bet portion of the "clarkey" is very small. Worse pairs aren't ever calling this without a heart.

[jt1]

FWIW, hand one now seems like an easy check/fold

hand 2 seems like a bet/fold, but check call may be better since a small Ace will often check this behind and worse hand will almost always fold. I think you can say that against a CS then bet/fold and against a more aggro player or someone capable of folding a made hand on the river you should go for the bluff.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 is the ol' clarkey on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not it's not. ...snipped... Worse pairs aren't ever calling this without a heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is what about better pairs...I think I have a decent chance to fold a non-heart hand...cause my play is starting to look more and more like I dont mind the 4-flush on the board. What do you think?

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 is the ol' clarkey on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not it's not. ...snipped... Worse pairs aren't ever calling this without a heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is what about better pairs...I think I have a decent chance to fold a non-heart hand...cause my play is starting to look more and more like I dont mind the 4-flush on the board. What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think a Q is ever folding - it's like Pete said. I don't think better nines make up anywhere close to 1/7.2 of his range and even then it's not near 100% he's folding those.