What game has the greatest skill/luck ratio?

[splashpot]

Tried search, got nothing. If this has been discussed, a link would be greatly appreciated.

Out of the following games: LHE, NLHE, 7 stud, PLO, O/8, which involves the most skill and the least amount of luck. In other words, which game gives the greatest edge to a skilled player?

[TStoneMBD]

im not qualified to answer this, but i will take a shot.

in order of skillful to luck based;

PLO
0/8
stud
nlhe
lhe

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, which game gives the greatest edge to a skilled player?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a cash game, over the long run, I would say:

NLHE
PLO
O/8
7S
LHE

But who knows. This is so hard to measure.

In terms of variance, PLO has the most.

[comic2b]

A great question. I'm curious about taking a stab.

1) PLO - This game is the nuts, the betting, the draws, the bluffs. Definately the most skill. It's all about the betting.

2) Stud - most diffcult game to make the adjustment with odds. All the other games are flop based. Also lots of cards to keep track of.

3) NLHE - The betting. I only rank the others higher because hold em is simpilier.

4) Limit Omaha - You should know where you are at.

5) LHE

[FishHooks]

i disagree with most of what you guys say, omaha and 7card stud are considered more of drawing games, there for more luck is involved. Holdem has the most skill involoved. Also skill is a vague term are you talking just plain poker skill, or all of the other "skills" that come into play when becoming a winning player.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Mason M wrote an essay on this and it was published in one of his books.
My rankings are
1. NLHE
2. PLO
3. O/8
4. 7-Stud
5. LHE
6.
7.
8.
9.
99. Playing rock-paper-scissor
9999. Flipping coins
10000.
20000.
9999999999. Limit Omaha

In NL and PL. mistakes are punished severely. When I switch from limit to NL, one of my greatest pleasure was seeing a limit call station take a shot at the NL tables. In hi-lo, most of the time amateur players do not understand how to play the optimum strategy.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
i disagree with most of what you guys say, omaha and 7card stud are considered more of drawing games, there for more luck is involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is entirely and completely false. There is great skill in evaluating the quality of your draw vs. a possible made hand.

Take razz, for example. Some people complain that it is a game for draws and suckouts with a lot of luck involved. Still, it is perhaps the easiest game for one to develop a mathematically optimal strategy and it is a relatively easy game for an expert player to separate a fool from his money.

In order of the edge a skillful player has over a bad player, I'd rank split games higher than their high only counterparts. Among big bet games, I think pot-limit omaha has a bigger edge than no limit holdem because bad players too often draw to and raise with non-nut hands. Omaha is probably a more skillful game than hold em because aggression can mask some of the deficiencies of a bad hold em player, but not a bad omaha player.

I think a different way of asking is: which games have a lower variance and which have a higher variance. The higher variance games are the ones which are more volatile due to luck experienced by bad players.

[blackize]

I would say that 7stud has one of the highest skill/luck ratios. Keeping track of dead cards is hard enough, plus you absolutely have to be able to put someone on a hand if you want to do well, adjustments need to be made based on the ante sizes, and finally starting hands can be much bigger favorites over other hands. Careful hand selection, reading skills, pot odds, and memory are all huge parts of this game , and all of those parts are skills. Luck is a small factor in comparison.

[the alex]

I'd have to say for long term success:

1.) PLHE
2.) NL 2/7 3 Draw
3.) NLHE
4.) PLO
5.) PLO8
6.) 7S
7.) 7S8
8.) LHE
8.) NLO
9.) NLO8
10.) L Omaha
11.) L O8

I would put limit 2/7 in there and I don't like NL Omaha, but lowball triple draw can't be played limit. It just can't. The game too shorthanded and there are too many cards. Almost any game would be dead or too heavily swingy as any form of Stud would be.

5Draw works well as a big bet game because there's only one draw, but I didn't include that.

[meow_meow]

I'm curious as to why everyone is putting PLO ahead of PLO8.

I've always been told that PLO8 is the game where mediocre players are separated from their chips the quickest.