Should I quit? 35k hands at 1/2 and still breaking even..Stats inside - Page 7

Abbaddabba · #61 11-30-2005, 02:13 PM

I think the most glaring of issues that i can find is that you fold your BB to steals FAR too often.

The fact that you fold 75% of your big blinds to steals means that you're only marginally more inclined to defend from a steal than you are to voluntarily put in the pot otherwise (given that your vpip is 18%).

You should probably post your positional stats and see how much you're winning/losing out of the blinds.

PFR% is a bit low, but i dont think that's an issue.
VPIP is a bit low, but it's certainly not a leak - you're probably just missing out on a few marginally profitable situations.

W$SD and WSD doesnt seem unusual either, but that might just be because my stats are less than optimal too.

River AF seems absurdly high relative to the rest of it.

I think that generally, AF should go down as you approach showdown. Yours goes up.

#62 11-30-2005, 03:43 PM

After thinking more, I've been trying to clear bonuses...it has been my main priority.

However, in doing this, I've also been forced to play in some pretty crappy games. I'm pretty sure most of the hands I play are grinded out against other bonus whores at 1/2. It seems to be where they congregate. I'm tired of playing games with 17% VPIP

I realize that I have some leaks in my game. Mainly stealing/defending blinds, and continuing to bet on when my overcards miss the flop (leading to a high fold % on river along with reveresed aggression pattern).

After examining some of the sites I play at, 2/4 games seem much better. I have more than enough gambling bankroll (I have enough for 5/10 or more), and I come from a strict casino background where it isnt uncommon for me to lose $1000 in an hour or two or at one flip of the card, so I don't think handling the swings will be a problem.

To me, losing $200 over the course of 6 hours at poker is MUCH MUCH more frustrating than losing $500 in an hour at the casino side (as long as the casino bet is +EV), because at least I can go watch TV or something.

Anyways, here is two hands..

Hand 8

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) PokerRoom Converter at BonusHunting.net

Preflop: Hero is Hero with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T.
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.5 BB

Is this how you would have played it??

Hand 9

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) PokerRoom Converter at BonusHunting.net

Preflop: Hero is Hero with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Button folds.

River: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

A very annoying hand for me. What do you guys think?

Nikademus · #63 11-30-2005, 03:50 PM

I guess you are going to ignore our advice and just keep posting hands. Oh well...

Hand 8.
without a read on SB:
Check the turn, see the river for free. check/call depending on what it brings.

Hand 9:
Again, with no reads:
Flop: You can't expect aggression here, so I'd lead out.
Turn: fine
River: why are you 3-betting someone that woke up on the flush card? Check/call or bet/call here.

Harv72b · #64 11-30-2005, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is Hero with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember what I said earlier about slowplaying too often? In a pot this size, with this many opponents, and with nobody showing aggression preflop, you need to lead out here 150% of the time. As in, even if you're just watching the table, you should be looking for a "bet" button. Incidentally, against a smaller field (say 1 limper + the BB), you should lead out on this flop if you're holding 55, too. But seriously, against a large field, it is never correct to slowplay anything less than flopped quads, and even then you should probably go ahead and bet it.

Bob T had a really, really good post in this thread a little while back, and made a couple of excellent book suggestions for the mental/discipline side of this game. His advice on varying your own playing style to counter that of your opponents is very solid, although this is not something you should be focusing on yet--so long as you're primarily grinding out bonus hands on 1/2 (and now, 2/4), work first & foremost on the basics and on plugging your leaks like the one above, and then move on to more advanced matters like changing up your play.

There are two basic lines you can take on Hand 8, btw: either check through the turn and call a bet on the river, or play it exactly like you did. Unless your opponent is very aggressive/tricky (you'd want to check through the turn then) or a very passive calling station (bet/fold the turn then), neither line is really better IMO.

TaintedRogue · #65 11-30-2005, 07:28 PM

One thing that jumps out at me immediately is your high percentage of mucking in the blinds to a steal/raise from button/CO.

The lack of aggression in these situations, coupled with your low win rate, leads me to believe you may not be aggressive enough with less than the best hands.

You can't count on pulling a 2BB+ pr 100 hands with nothing but the best hands.

I also believe your attempt to steal the blinds is too low. I believe it should be closer to 33%. This is the % of times everyone folds to you, when you are in the CO or Button.

#66 11-30-2005, 07:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, in doing this, I've also been forced to play in some pretty crappy games. I'm pretty sure most of the hands I play are grinded out against other bonus whores at 1/2. It seems to be where they congregate. I'm tired of playing games with 17% VPIP

[/ QUOTE ]

Under session notes in PT, what is the cumulative Avg Pot size and cumulative ASF(average see flop) for tables you play at.

I play mostly at Party, most of my hands at 1/2 and
Avg Pot = $15.5
ASF = 34

Avg pot is a little high b/c maybe 1/6 of my hands are at 2/4.

#67 11-30-2005, 07:42 PM

Seems like ur very similar to me and I too have been less than 1BB/100 at $2/$4 for about 50K hands. That's why I switched back to NL, and have been enjoying myself there. One day I may try limit again, but it wuz rather frustrating for the time I did play it.

Yeah I think one of my larger leaks may have been on the river, I probably folded too much.

#68 11-30-2005, 07:45 PM

In the 10k hands I have played in the past two weeks:

Avg Pot: 10.33
ASF: 27.63

#69 11-30-2005, 07:45 PM

Hey these have been mentioned before but I think

1) You do not c/r enough. I am at 1% over 80K hands, 65K of which at 1/2. c/r for protection or value are both important

2) Fold to River be seems high. I am at 37%

I would be very interested to see your PT stats for your table selection. Under "session notes" look at ASF and Avg. Pot. While your winrate is not great, I think that it's going to be hard to beat tight games for a huge winrate because the rake is so crippling.

Good luck!

TaintedRogue · #70 12-01-2005, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do me one favor go back and separate a block of 5k hands where you won less than 53% of your showdowns and still was beating the the game, then we will talk more.
Op is beating the game when he wins 56% of showdowns but is loosing at 51%. My stats says that 53% breakeven 55% I'm a 2bb/100 hands. Granted I may have leaks elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be paying to see the Turn too often with too little money in the pot.

If I have a 500+ hand session where I only win 51/52% of my showdowns, I still win 35% of all hand I get involved with and over 10% of all hands I've been dealt. That is, when the cards are running on average.