How deep do you need to be before laying this down is an option?

SpaceAce · #1 10-23-2005, 11:36 PM

The game is $1-$1-$2 no limit Hold'em at the Luxor in Las Vegas. The buy-in is $50 exactly, no more, no less. When you get down to $49 or less, you can buy another $50, so it's really a $99 capped buy-in. I played this hand several months back and I wonder when (if ever) other posters think it might be correct to lay this down, especially considering the capped buy-in.

I have a very deep stack of just over $800 and have the table well covered. There is one guy close to me with about ~$760. This is unusual for this game. You sometimes see stacks get up around a grand but in my experience it's rare to have two above $500 or so.

The other big stack in this hand is very passive and I haven't seen him make any moves without the nuts or nearly the nuts. I believe he is a thinking player and capable of making moves but not bluffs. I think he knows how to build a pot but I don't think he has the nerve for putting money in the pot without a big hand. His raising standards pre-flop are AA-JJ and AK, not much else. His limping range is much wider; QKs/o, AQs/o, AJs/o, AXs, TT-22, QJs/o-45s/o. He's been at the table with me a good six or seven hours and I have not seen him limp with any of the raising hands I mentioned or raise any of the limping hands. He calls a lot pre-flop but doesn't show much aggression without the goods, which includes playing second- and third-nut flushes pretty weakly when played back at, especially if the board is paired.

I get A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the button. The other big stack open limps in late position and I raise to $12 (anywhere from $6-$20 is standard depending on when you sit in this game). The big blind (about $150 behind) calls $10 more and the big stack limper calls.

$1 + $1 + $12 + $12 + $12 = $38 in the pot.

The flop is: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The big blind checks, the other big stack checks and I bet $30. The big blind folds and the villain check-raises me to $60. Now I am worried because I've only seen this guy check-raise once and he had the nut boat that time. I call.

$38 + $120 = $158 in the pot

The turn is: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

The villain makes a weak bet of $30. I raise to $120, thinking only about keeping him in the pot with his second-best hand. The villain instantly declares all-in.

No one ever lays this down, right? I normally wouldn't even consider it but this guy was so passive and the capped buyin can really crimp your fun if you lose 7+ buyins on one hand. Results later.

SpaceAce

Adam22 · #2 10-23-2005, 11:41 PM

this is a limit forum my friend.

#3 10-23-2005, 11:43 PM

Try the Nl forum.

I would call, but since you made this thread I'm sure he had TT, or KQc, so I'm gonna say I would fold just to sound like a badass.

#4 10-23-2005, 11:55 PM

Based on your reads, is there any chance villian is holding 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? This sounds like an easy fold, but that's just because of the way you have described it. The only quantitative way I can think off approaching this question is: what is your margin of error on this read? Even a small margin of error would make it -EV to fold. In your place I'd call after some thought, in theory.

Better yet, people do misread their hole cards some nonzero amount of the time. Maybe it's K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]!

Guernica4000 · #5 10-24-2005, 12:32 AM

From you description of the hand and your opponent I would say fold but again it is only based on what you described. If your reads had not been so meticulous I would have said call.

Let's see:
"His raising standards pre-flop are AA-JJ and AK, not much else. His limping range is much wider; QKs/o, AQs/o, AJs/o, AXs, TT-22, QJs/o-45s/o. He's been at the table with me a good six or seven hours and I have not seen him limp with any of the raising hands I mentioned or raise any of the limping hands. "

From this statement and since he limped in we know he could not have JJ so he must have one of his limping hands with a flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] what hands could he have?

Based on your statement the range of hands would have to be: KQ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], TT or 45 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

“He calls a lot pre-flop but doesn't show much aggression without the goods , which includes playing second- and third-nut flushes pretty weakly when played back at, especially if the board is paired .”

Once the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hits and again based on your reads and statement, he can only have KQ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or TT. I would lean more towards TT since he may be afraid of the river giving you a straight flush.

Hopefully you laid it down but then again maybe he tried to limp in with JJ to change things up agaist you. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

SpaceAce · #6 10-24-2005, 12:56 AM

[censored], wrong forum. Sorry. I'll repost this in NL later. So sleepy.

SpaceAce

Guernica4000 · #7 10-25-2005, 10:48 PM

So Space what happened?