Quadruple Shootout hand

durron597 · #1 06-03-2005, 10:11 PM

Opponent is loose passive, and is mixing up their play well in the sense that it's hard to put them on a hand, but has been making some bad decisions.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (4 handed) converter

SB (t1695)
Hero (t2515)
UTG (t3690)
Button (t1100)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button calls t100, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t300) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t100, Hero calls t100, Button folds.

Turn: (t500) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t300, Hero raises to t2315,

augie00 · #2 06-03-2005, 10:20 PM

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Opponent is loose passive, and is mixing up their play well in the sense that it's hard to put them on a hand, but has been making some bad decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think the SB is capable of folding an actual hand there, the line seems fine to me. However, the way the SB is betting makes me think he's not going to fold this. I would call the turn and fold if I didn't improve.

durron597 · #3 06-03-2005, 10:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Opponent is loose passive, and is mixing up their play well in the sense that it's hard to put them on a hand, but has been making some bad decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think the SB is capable of folding an actual hand there, the line seems fine to me. However, the way the SB is betting makes me think he's not going to fold this. I would call the turn and fold if I didn't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever had one of those players who just throws you off your game? Folds when you don't expect them to, calls when you don't expect them too? In general he seemed loose passive but I couldn't really figure him out. I once called him down with TPGK and he showed complete garbage.

nsj · #4 06-03-2005, 10:36 PM

Second barrel from a 'passive' player out of the SB is, based on my experience and the texture of this board, an ok J (J9, JQ, JK, J8) or, looking at the turn bet as well, two pair (JT, J7).

I'm not sure I like the push because if he has top pair, he's probably too fishy, based on your read of his play and the uncoordinated board, to give you credit out of the BB for a ratty two pair, a turned straight, or a J with a top kicker. If he has two pair, he's definitely calling, but you likely have 14 clean outs against any call.

Just not sure about your FE here. It's a tough spot.

cferejohn · #5 06-03-2005, 10:40 PM

I don't like it given your read. You say he is loose-passive, which means that you don't want to bluff him (I have to imagine he has something better than a pair of 3s). Even though you aren't getting odds on the call, the fact that he is likely to call a pretty decent amount on the river if you hit an A, 3, or spade I think makes this a call on the turn and a check-fold on the river if you miss and a bet in the 500-700 range if you hit...

McMelchior · #6 06-04-2005, 12:02 AM

Am I the only one that really doesn't like the flop call?

Loose/passive opponents rarely bet into to flops from EP with nothing ... most likely you're behind here.

Even though it's only costing you 4% of your stack I don't see much point in drawing to approximately 6 outs on the turn (3 Aces, 2 Treys and the runner-runner flush) with the pot only offering you 4:1 ... and clearly questionable implied odds (you're probably not going to get much action if an Ace turns)? Or were you planning to raise the turn no matter what comes?

Chips are precious ... especially if you later find the need to convince loose/passive opponents NOT to call your raise ...

Or am I revealing a major leak in my own game - giving up bottom pair to a min-bet on the flop in a 4-handed game?

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

durron597 · #7 06-04-2005, 12:40 AM

As I said in another post, he was mixing up his play, badly. I saw him bet all three streets with 9 high (didn't get his gutshot draw until the turn and he still bet the flop, and the river, which he missed). So he could have anything on the flop, and I thought there was a chance my threes were good!

But I do agree the call was questionable.