Spewing Every Street? Did I Go Crazy

Hybrid_11 · #1 06-27-2005, 11:00 PM

UTG is the average 2/4 fish 33vpip 2% raise with very minimal aggresstion

MP is the average maniac 40 vpip with 20% raise

I felt my 3 bet preflop was in order. Did I get to crazy with this hand on pretty much every street or against my 2 opponents do you like the way I handled this hand?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (20.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 32.25 BB

TylerK · #2 06-27-2005, 11:01 PM

I like it.

sinfulslick18 · #3 06-27-2005, 11:11 PM

cap the turn man. you hit one of you lucious outs. might of gotten an extra 2bbs out of it

-sinful. preflop is nice

Paxosmotic · #4 06-27-2005, 11:13 PM

You've got UTG read as passive and he's going gonzo for the third flush card as well. I don't think you're being shown anything but Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] at showdown here. Anyone else think hero should be calling the raise on the river, not 3-betting?

mscags · #5 06-27-2005, 11:18 PM

I like it a lot, I don't see why you didn't cap the turn. I think this is a good play agaisnt a maniac. On the flop you very well have two overs plus the flush draw as outs to probably give you the best hand (flush almost certainly) On the turn you might be ahead already but probably not given the action, but you have such a monster draw and the other villian is dead money I don't see any reason not to cap it as well. The river is obvious. I imagine you took this pot down. Nice hand sir.

mscags · #6 06-27-2005, 11:22 PM

I think it is possible, but by his betting from the early streets I don't think he had a flush draw unless he had something like hero has. Very possible he has the Ace high flush though after the river action, but with the dead money in the pot I think you have to cap it.

TripleH68 · #7 06-27-2005, 11:44 PM

UTG passive check/3-bets the flop, then goes into call down mode on the turn. He wakes up when the flush card hits on the river.

Given your description I can't imagine he has anything but a flush. I am calling the river raise. (If you won extra bets this time that's cool.)

Derek132260 · #8 06-28-2005, 02:10 AM

PF: I like the 3-bet against a 20% raiser
Flop: I'm probably not capping here, especially not against a very passive player 3-betting
Turn: Same thing...obviously if it were just you and MP, you'd probably raise...but if a passive player 3-bets behind a PFRaiser on the flop...I'm figuring him for more than a pair
River: Clearly you ram and jam here as hard as possible...if someone's got the ace-high flush, so be it.

Backstabr · #9 06-28-2005, 03:11 AM

When UTG 3-bets, your KQ outs are not live, so don't cap flop. I don't like the turn raise.

If the you caught a board-pairing flush, I hope you wouldn't raise.

Nick C · #10 06-28-2005, 03:59 AM

The flop check/3-bet from the passive UTG player has me thinking set, which is one hand (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is another) that you'd prefer not to be out there, though you will win a lot of money versus a set if the flush hits and the board doesn't pair (although not as much as you would if UTG were more aggressive). Ordinarily, I'd say you should definitely cap with position, two big overcards, a flush draw, and two opponents. You are going to spike a pair or make your flush by the river about 54 percent of the time. However, in this case your pair outs may be no good (and the flush will only come in about 35 percent of the time), and you could be up against a redraw if you make your flush (or, if the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] falls, you may make it at the same time UTG makes a boat or quads).

All the same, I don't really have a problem with the flop cap. Possibly UTG is just being more aggressive than he usually is for some reason (maybe MP1 has been getting on his nerves) and he doesn't have a hand as good as a set. Also, you could get a free card on the turn if, for instance, UTG tries to checkraise you again.

The turn is tricky, because we don't know if UTG is going for another checkraise or not. MP1's bet doesn't have to mean that much, since he's a maniac, and he may have decided he once again likes his wheel draw, now that you and he have bullied UTG into resuming his passive ways. Also, there is some chance UTG has something like 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and you're ahead now. So I think I like the raise.

And then, well, UTG didn't check/3-bet this time, which is a good sign, unless he's now worried you have QQ and thus doesn't like his set or 43 so much anymore.

When MP1 3-bets, one question to ask is just how maniacal he is. Since I don't know the answer, it's hard for me to say what you should do. In any event, he is at least representing a hand that's currently ahead of you. (And maybe he just called UTG's flop check/3-bet because he wanted to pop the turn.) I don't know. Capping is something to consider, but I think the call is all right.

On the river, you've got the second nuts, but when UTG checkraises, it looks like he just made a flush too. A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] are some hands to worry about, but a lot of other flushes are possible (the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ones being most likely, I think, and there are 6 of those that don't beat you; also, a hand like 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is possible). MP1 seems committed to the hand, so you are getting 2:1 on every river bet you put in, at least.

All the same, I'm not especially happy when UTG caps.