lmd taught me this

[brettbrettr]

This isn't really believable.

[PTjvs]

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This isn't really believable.

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Neither was the button turn bet.

[brettbrettr]

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This isn't really believable.

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Neither was the button turn bet.

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He can't have an 8?

[feelixthegreek]

My thoughts:

Is it worth putting 3 big bets at risk in a pot that contains only 3.5 big bets? For 1.5 big bets you could have led the flop and the turn and taken it down that way, or folded safely to aggression (unless the OESD odds are there).

Having a read on the table is essential to make this kind of play; I'd want more certainty that it would work.

[PTjvs]

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This isn't really believable.

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Neither was the button turn bet.

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He can't have an 8?

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An 8 that didnt bet the flop? something like A8s, 87s perhaps. Better question: can an 8 call?

Note: if all out outs are clean, we have 14 outs to beat an 8

[Brunger]

I like it as you probably have the best hand over the button. If he is calling down with a ten or 8 we have 11-14 outs plus the chance he might fold and it makes it very hard for someone in the middle to call with a Ten or even a J that for some reason they checked twice. Even another 9 isn't getting odds anymore.NH

[brettbrettr]

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An 8 that didnt bet the flop? something like A8s, 87s perhaps. Better question: can an 8 call?

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Why would an 8 bet the flop?

As far as can a bad hand call in a small pot, the answer is yes. Bad players don't really pay attention to pot size. They will most often however realize that you didn't miss a flop c/r and try again on the turn.

I try not to get unthinking players to make mistake like this. No, he shouldn't call this raise in a small pot with a weak made hand. But the fact of the matter is he sucks, and we love our seat because he sucks. Giving him credit for being able to make a fold when he probably should is a mistake.

(This of course assumes the button sucks. If he is a good player, then your problem is convincing him that you missed a c/r on the flop and tried again on the turn...)

[PTjvs]

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An 8 that didnt bet the flop? something like A8s, 87s perhaps. Better question: can an 8 call?

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Why would an 8 bet the flop?

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Most semi-connected 8s have some piece of the flop. 89, T8, J8 should be betting the flop. 87 & A8 are possible though of course.

[DiceyPlay]

I think this depends a lot on what you think of the button and what you think the button thinks of you.

Putting 2 big bet pressure on the rest of the field in a smallish pot with a descent draw (semi-bluff) looks good to me. Everyone might fold to you right there. If atleast two of the field fold, a river bluff could be successful if you don't improve.

On the other hand there's only 3.5 big bets in the pot when you put 2 more in. So I think you need to be pretty confident a follow through bluff will get you the pot for those times you don't improve.

When you cr the turn, it's also looks like (to observant players) that you intended to cr the flop - bit it got checked through. This should fold those folks.

Well played sir - results?

[onegymrat]

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Why not bet? I think the chances of everyone folding are relatively just as good (it's not like the pot is big or anything) and the parlay that you're hoping for here -- a late position bet from a hand that either can't call a raise or is a draw that will fold to river bet -- is quite high given the pot size.

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I can't see betting into four players with a coordinated board where everyone will fold, especially when the odds to improve my hand is very slim. I do, however, like making them face two bets, which improves my chances not to split pot with another nine. In other words, a turn bet makes my hand seem more like what it actually is, an oesd, but a turn check-raise seems much more like a made hand.