Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop? - Page 2

TomBrooks · #11 05-05-2005, 12:53 PM

In an unraised (if that happened) pot with three opponents, I would check/fold this flop. In a raised pot you have odds to call a bet with six outs or even four outs if you discount the clubs out, so I'd probably bet out rather than check and call a bet. I would further discount my hand a little on this flop for straight or straight draw possibilities, so check-folding this flop probably wouldn't be horrible either. I would tend to bet if the field was tight, and tend to fold if they were loose.

chipolino · #12 05-05-2005, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
getting 8:1 you should at least see the turn with 2 overcards.

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Let's follow the SSHE advice and say our overcards are worth 0.5 each since sometimes we still lose when we hit them. So we have about 3 outs > 14:1. However, two of them put three to a flush, so these two are worth even less plus it gives anyone with a club a redraw to a flush. I wouldn't count these two as outs since they're practically worthless. Add to all this that we're facing three opponents our overcards drop in value a bit more. So, we have more or less between 1.5-2 outs > 22:1. That's my reasoning here for not calling. Anyone with any comments on this is welcomed.

BatsShadow · #13 05-05-2005, 01:07 PM

Good Post.

I have a problem with autobetting like this, but I've lately been backing off with more than 2 opponents. I probably would've check-called one bet with my overcards though, but I still have some trouble with overcard play.

Octopus · #14 05-05-2005, 01:07 PM

I hate check-calling this. As I see it, there are 2 possibile lines:

1. Bet out. If I get more than one caller, I am done with this hand unimproved.

2. Check, planning to raise if MP1 checks, MP2 bets, and SB folds; and to fold to all other combinations.

I'm inclined to do the second since our position is so bad. (Specifically, we are not first to act; we are second.) But with some reads, either could be fine (as could just flat check-folding).

Mike Z · #15 05-05-2005, 01:13 PM

This is a good question,
I always auto-bet over-cards when last to act and checked to me.
I don’t know if this is right or wrong?

chipolino · #16 05-05-2005, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate check-calling this. As I see it, there are 2 possibile lines:

1. Bet out. If I get more than one caller, I am done with this hand unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's either check-fold or bet out. No way I'm check-calling this either.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Check, planning to raise if MP1 checks, MP2 bets, and SB folds; and to fold to all other combinations.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting move, and I have done it myself several times. Now, what will you do if reraised?

chipolino · #17 05-05-2005, 01:26 PM

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I always auto-bet over-cards when last to act and checked to me.I don’t know if this is right or wrong?

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I would bet here if I was last to act and it was checked to me. But what will you do if it was bet into you with a) 1 or 2 caller or b) no callers?

aargh57 · #18 05-05-2005, 01:31 PM

I don't know if I would say that the two [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] overcards are practically worthless (3 to a flush on board doesn't mean someone made a flush) although I would discount them a little. I think when SSH discounts them to approximately 1.5 outs it's precisely because top pair doesn't always win. I think you can safely say they would be worth about 2.5 outs and with implied odds you might be able to call but you'd probably need about 11 or 12 to 1.

@bsolute_luck · #19 05-05-2005, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
getting 8:1 you should at least see the turn with 2 overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's follow the SSHE advice and say our overcards are worth 0.5 each since sometimes we still lose when we hit them. So we have about 3 outs > 14:1. However, two of them put three to a flush, so these two are worth even less plus it gives anyone with a club a redraw to a flush. I wouldn't count these two as outs since they're practically worthless. Add to all this that we're facing three opponents our overcards drop in value a bit more. So, we have more or less between 1.5-2 outs > 22:1. That's my reasoning here for not calling. Anyone with any comments on this is welcomed.

[/ QUOTE ]

we counting outs if deciding whether to call or fold. not bet or check/call.

Edit: i think the quote i used here was in response to a bet response, so it might be a bit out of context, but my statement is still true when considering what to do.

my thinking: why check if we're going to call a bet, we're checked to, and it is possible that the flop missed everyone? why do we assume that just because there are 2 same suited cards, that the people in the hand are on a flush draw? why do our overcards lose value just because possible loose players call our bet? these seem assumptions to me that will 1) get you bluffed to fold easily 2) make you timid when playing 3) play contrary to the Theory of Poker: playing differently if you saw all the cards.

johnc · #20 05-05-2005, 01:40 PM

I'm prone to check fold this situation. There's too many ways to be beat str8, flush draw, even a measly couple of 4s or 6s has you beat. AK looks very pretty pf but you've flopped a big blank with very few outs to improve to maybe 2nd best so look to get out of this hand as cheap as possible.
P.S. I'm a recovering autobettor but I got sick of donating to obviously losing situations.