two pair confusion

ep510 · #1 05-31-2005, 05:55 AM

MP2: 35.48/9.68/0.3
CO: 15.85/6.1/0.64

Is this a value raise on the river? MP2 had less than 1 BB left in his stack after his raise, so I figured his raise might just be in desparation from his short stack.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (15 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (15 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets...

27offsooot · #2 05-31-2005, 09:02 AM

PF: Fine
Flop: Don't like the flop raise, would just call, but could also see a fold here.
Turn: I assume you're going for a c/r here, which is fine, but i think that i like a bet better. ace is a pretty bad scare card and likely to get this one checked through.
River: 3-bet is bad.

dumbgai · #3 05-31-2005, 10:26 AM

shrug, why is the river 3bet so bad? poor guy in CO looks like he's just putting dead money in the pot, and MP.. well, i think more often than not he just has some random crappier 2p (hero's river bet doesnt seem to me a big indication of strength). so if MP comes and caps it then [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] but the 2 more bets MP and CO put in if they have worse makes it seem all rite... esp since this seems like a somewhat looser-than-usaul table judging from the preflop/flop action

Petteri · #4 05-31-2005, 10:38 AM

Cause MP2 has less than 1 BB left, raise is good play. If he had more chips situation is different.

Stack · #5 05-31-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River: 3-bet is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the 3bet is good. MP is short stacked, and CO checked the turn with only one player remaining.

I fold the flop though. I'd never call with this many players behind me who could raise. (I might raise sometimes, but not call). Since I respect your posts, I'd like to hear more about this.

Nick Royale · #6 05-31-2005, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Cause MP2 has less than 1 BB left, raise is good play. If he had more chips situation is different.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree, MP2 being almost all-in makes me like the 3-bet.

Super Pro · #7 05-31-2005, 11:50 AM

preflop and flop are played terribly.

chief444 · #8 05-31-2005, 11:56 AM

I don't see how preflop can possibly be categorized as "played terribly". I can see an argument for just calling. But when it looks like 5 players will be seeing the flop 3-betting with AQs even out of position seems just fine to me.

I think the flop is an interesting decision with one overcard that may or may not be good, two backdoor draws to the nuts and a big pot but again I wouldn't call the raise terrible. Folding is a definite option though considering a raise behind you is pretty likely.

Super Pro · #9 05-31-2005, 12:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how preflop can possibly be categorized as "played terribly".

[/ QUOTE ]

you're out of position and you're going to be 3-betting against someone who only raises 6% or so of his hands preflop. i'd understand the 3-bet against a looser raiser, but against this certain player, its spewing.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is an interesting decision with one overcard that may or may not be good, two backdoor draws to the nuts and a big pot but again I wouldn't call the raise terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

A flop raise here is just more spewing. Your position is terrible with all those players to act behind you and you stand very little chance of having the best hand or the best draw or clearing the field out. Just call here and hope it doesn't get raised.

Nick Royale · #10 05-31-2005, 12:07 PM

Preflop seems fine to me. It's read dependant if I 3-bet or just call, the raise from CO after only one limper could be considered a possible steal with the right read, in which case a 3-bet is easy. If I don't think he's capable of a steal calling becomes an alternative, but raising is far from terrible.

Flop is interesting, that's all I have to say. I'm not sure what line I would take. Have to think about that one, but since I have to think I have hard to see that raising could be really terrible.