Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-22-2005, 06:58 PM
hmkpoker hmkpoker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 116
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

Excellent topic ^_^

I assume we're ignoring issues related to the constitution, and implementing a new voting structure, ab initio, in a theoretical vacuum.

I feel that different people should have different voting weights, depending on how knowledgable they are regarding the issues relative to the vote. A high school dropout who's done nothing with his life or education should not have the same voting power as someone with a PhD in political science and economics. Perhaps the doctor's vote should count as ten votes, or something like that. How exactly this voting weight should be determined, I don't know. It would take years of expert research.

What's your opinion, vultures?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-22-2005, 06:59 PM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 590
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

Was it the typos or something deeper.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-22-2005, 07:27 PM
sam h sam h is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 742
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

[ QUOTE ]
What state controls should Iraq have?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know. But the state right now has very little power, and that is precisely the problem.

[ QUOTE ]
A read of thier constitution makes one wonder how it's going to be different from Iran.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't think it had to be this way, but right now I don't see it going any other direction.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-22-2005, 07:40 PM
lehighguy lehighguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 590
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

Iraq should have a loyal standing army, but that is far from an arguement for state involvement in cultural, personal, and business affairs.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-22-2005, 07:43 PM
mrmazoo mrmazoo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

The typos, of course.

But seriously, I agree with you that the importance of voting is negligable.

No major change by the people of this country has ever come about as a result of the vote.

The vote didn't get us out of Vietnam.

The vote didn't establish worker's rights.

The vote (ironically) didn't enable women and blacks to vote.

The vote didn't end slavery.

The vote didn't enable women to have legal abortions.

The vote won't end the Iraq war or the War on Terror.

Not only is voting relatively unimportant, it can even be said to be counter-productive when it comes to democracy.

Imagine two people. One of them is politically inert pretty much all the time except when they vote. The other never votes but is active politically in their daily lives.

Which one has more political power?

Voting gives people the illusion of democracy. It is neither a necessary nor a sufficient property of a democratic government.

So, my feeling is that it doesn't matter if you only let rich people vote, or smart people, or people who know more trivia about candidates. Change doesn't come about through voting. Pissed off people willing to risk their lives and their livelihoods have ALWAYS been the ones to bring about change, in this or any other country.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:04 PM
hmkpoker hmkpoker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 116
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

[ QUOTE ]
The typos, of course.

But seriously, I agree with you that the importance of voting is negligable.

No major change by the people of this country has ever come about as a result of the vote.

The vote didn't get us out of Vietnam.

The vote didn't establish worker's rights.

The vote (ironically) didn't enable women and blacks to vote.

The vote didn't end slavery.

The vote didn't enable women to have legal abortions.

The vote won't end the Iraq war or the War on Terror.

Not only is voting relatively unimportant, it can even be said to be counter-productive when it comes to democracy.

Imagine two people. One of them is politically inert pretty much all the time except when they vote. The other never votes but is active politically in their daily lives.

Which one has more political power?

Voting gives people the illusion of democracy. It is neither a necessary nor a sufficient property of a democratic government.

So, my feeling is that it doesn't matter if you only let rich people vote, or smart people, or people who know more trivia about candidates. Change doesn't come about through voting. Pissed off people willing to risk their lives and their livelihoods have ALWAYS been the ones to bring about change, in this or any other country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but this really made me laugh for a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:31 PM
mrmazoo mrmazoo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The typos, of course.

But seriously, I agree with you that the importance of voting is negligable.

No major change by the people of this country has ever come about as a result of the vote.

The vote didn't get us out of Vietnam.

The vote didn't establish worker's rights.

The vote (ironically) didn't enable women and blacks to vote.

The vote didn't end slavery.

The vote didn't enable women to have legal abortions.

The vote won't end the Iraq war or the War on Terror.

Not only is voting relatively unimportant, it can even be said to be counter-productive when it comes to democracy.

Imagine two people. One of them is politically inert pretty much all the time except when they vote. The other never votes but is active politically in their daily lives.

Which one has more political power?

Voting gives people the illusion of democracy. It is neither a necessary nor a sufficient property of a democratic government.

So, my feeling is that it doesn't matter if you only let rich people vote, or smart people, or people who know more trivia about candidates. Change doesn't come about through voting. Pissed off people willing to risk their lives and their livelihoods have ALWAYS been the ones to bring about change, in this or any other country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but this really made me laugh for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

A typical rseponse (ie. ridicule, with no substance).

Care to tell us specifically what I said that you disagree with?

Oh, and please don't disappoint me with the old "if you don't vote, you have no right to complain" argument.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:39 PM
mrmazoo mrmazoo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent topic ^_^

I assume we're ignoring issues related to the constitution, and implementing a new voting structure, ab initio, in a theoretical vacuum.

I feel that different people should have different voting weights, depending on how knowledgable they are regarding the issues relative to the vote. A high school dropout who's done nothing with his life or education should not have the same voting power as someone with a PhD in political science and economics. Perhaps the doctor's vote should count as ten votes, or something like that. How exactly this voting weight should be determined, I don't know. It would take years of expert research.

What's your opinion, vultures?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what vultures' opinion is, but I think yours and other peoples' idea of limiting the voting rights of "uneducated" and "less qualified" people smacks of gross elitism and stems from the mistaken idea that poor and uneducated people are incapable of determining what their own interests are and that therefore smarter, more educated individuals ought to make certain choices for them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:44 PM
InchoateHand InchoateHand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Awake, goddamnit, awake.
Posts: 636
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

On the plus side, if their horribly myopic ideas were somehow implemented, the vast majority of highly educated people act according to interests far closer to my own--no stupid religiously motivated social policy, none of the false economics of the so-called "conservatives," and less of the idiocy of the current Republican party.

Repeal Suffrage!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:49 PM
FishHooks FishHooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 596
Default Re: Universal suffrage a good thing?

[ QUOTE ]
People are not stupider then they used to be.


[/ QUOTE ]

In regards to political knowledge they sure are. Politics is becoming more complex and people working longer nowadays, people generally have less time to worry about politics.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.