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Old 11-03-2005, 02:17 AM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

Iím trying to decide on the common denominators for what makes a conservative and what makes a liberal. Here is what I have so far.

Liberals believe in social freedom and economic mobility.

Conservatives value their national heritage and fight to preserve it.

The three concepts arenít mutually exclusive. Nor do the two main political parties represent liberals and conservatives well: There are liberal republicans who believe that a free market system is the best way to ensure that all people have a reasonable opportunity to change their financial situation. And the majority of Democrats and many Republicans value our national heritage but believe that social freedoms are a part of that heritage. Furthermore, the Democratic party has under its tent African American groups who care deeply about economic mobility but are socially quite conservative, and both parties have groups that are neither conservative nor liberal but are purely self-interested, labor unions for the Democrats and major corporations for the Republicans.

I want to use 4 major issues to illustrate how conservatives and liberals think differently and how both major political parties can't be accurately described as conservative or liberal.

War: American conservatives believe that our pre-eminence as the worldís greatest power is both good for the world and important to Americans. They believe that our heritage of Democracy, Christianity, and Capitalism is exactly what the world needs. Furthermore, they believe our pre-eminence has become an integral part of national heritage. Liberals believe that every innocent that is killed in war is the clearest possible example of a governmentís oppression and tyranny: Dead people have had all their social freedom and financial mobility stolen from them. Lyndon Johnson a major believer in economic mobility for all Americans started the Vietnam war and Dwight D. Eisenhower, a republican, invented the tern "industrial millitary complex" and said that every bomb that is made is a direct and organized robbery against poor children everywhere.

Abortion: Conservatives recognize that parents since the beginning of time have regarded the being in the womb to be their child. Since forever, most parents have talked, sang, etc to that creature like they would to a baby. Denying that creature a birth is an assault on our nations fundamental institutions including Marriage and Christianity. Liberals see abortion as a chance to give women greater financial mobility and thus have decided abortion to be a new social freedom. But there are some Democrats who believe that the fetus is a human being. And their are liberal Republicans who are pro-choice.

Gun Rights/Gun Control: Conservatives correctly see guns to be a major force in our history. The Revolutionary War as well as the fight for the West could not have been won without ordinary Americans owning and using their guns. The Wild West too! The Wild West is a major part of our national psyche. Guns and the Wild West are synonymous. Liberals believe that semi-automatic and automatic weapons restrict poor peoples financial mobility. However, there are other liberals who believe that owning a gun is as much a social freedom as freedom of speech. These liberals tend to be free market Republicans and/or Libertarians.

Gay marriage: Conservatives believe that homosexuality is an assault on Christianity and that America is a Christian nation. Liberals believe that sex is a social freedom. Many free market Republicans have no problem with homosexuality. Many Democrats see homosexuality as anti-God. These Democrats tend to African-American or Latino-American activist.

I am primarily interested in hearing peoples critique on my definition of what a liberal and what a conservative is. But all comments would be appreciated.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:43 AM
tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

[ QUOTE ]
Iím trying to decide on the common denominators for what makes a conservative and what makes a liberal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Conservatives: want to oppress people in other countries.

Liberals: want to oppress people in this country.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:50 AM
FishHooks FishHooks is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

I think the fact that you dont list any economic policy as one of your factors for seperating conseratives and liberals is extremely misleading.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:52 AM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

[ QUOTE ]
Conservatives: want to oppress people in other countries.

Liberals: want to oppress people in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Conservatives oppress through war and cold war tactical alliances. okay, i agree with this but that's not the point of my post.

How are liberals oppressing people in this country? Do you mean socialism is an act of oppression? I agree with this too. However, Socialism isn't necesarily a liberal tenant. For the last 50 years liberals have believed that socialism best gurantees economic mobility but that belief is beginning to change. And many socialist in America are extremely conservative. Just ask Labor.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:59 AM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

[ QUOTE ]
I think the fact that you dont list any economic policy as one of your factors for seperating conseratives and liberals is extremely misleading.


[/ QUOTE ]


Your right.


Minimum wage: Both liberals and conservatives are divided on this issue. Some conservatives believe unions and all things labor to be a part of Americana since the 1880's. Regard those bumper stickers reading that Unions brought you the weekend. Other conservatives believe that all things labor is anti-capitalism and thus anti-American. Most liberals who are Democrats believe that labor and socialist medicine help bring about economic mobility. Liberal republicans think they discourage economic mobility.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:08 AM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

[ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that you dont list any economic policy as one of your factors for seperating conseratives and liberals is extremely misleading.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think my first reply was inadequate. Economic policy divides the two major parties quite clearly. But in America, economics doesn't divide liberals and conservatives. I believe that economic opportunity is considered part of our heritage an so American conservatives value it more than say English conservatives.

The economic divide is the result of labor being in bed with most liberals. Social liberals have to agree to a minimum wage, tariffs, etc because otherwise labor would not fund their campaigns.

And similarly you can say that liberal republicans (free market hawks AKA fiscal conservatives) have to agree on banning gay marriage because the conservative coalition would not fund their campaigns.

It's impossible to achieve, but it would bring me great joy to see liberal republicans join forces with environmentalist and social libertarians to form a new party. Unfortunately, it could never happen; there wouldn't be enough money to fund a viable campaign.
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:30 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

My personal opinion:

Conservatives are like managers, concerned about keeping what is and changing little but growing within that boundary.

Liberals are like entrepreneurs, always wondering how things could be better, willing to take risks to fix society.

Personally, I am fiscally conservative (want to change little, manage the resources, grow the country) but socially liberal always wondering how the society could be improved.
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:37 AM
El Barto El Barto is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

[ QUOTE ]
Liberals are like entrepreneurs, always wondering how things could be better, willing to take risks to fix society.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is so wrong. Entrepreneurs are very anti-government regulation and taxation. Liberals are death to entrepreneurs.

And what is this about taking risks to fix society? If that were true, they would be willing to drop programs that are not working and try something new. But once a liberal program gets started by the government, it grows roots and becomes a huge bureaucracy. This is one of the biggest drains on our tax dollars - failed programs that will not die.
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:41 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

The entrepreneur is an analogy.

For example some liberals are interested in say free needles distribution -- this is clearly an experiment as no one really knows what would happen if this was tried in say parts of DC. This is a "social" entrepreneur. Not a business entrepreneur. Likely anyone suggesting this is not a business entrepreneur.

Liberals are more likely to try and change societal rules and norms. IMO.
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:11 AM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default Re: what makes a conservative/liberal and 4 issues

El Barto, you are confusing Democrat with liberal and Republican with conservative. Free market trading for air polution is a liberal idea, though a republican one. It's liberal, because, it takes an economic mobility model (liberal concern) and applies it to an issue that has nothing to do with our national heritage (conservative concerns)

When the media continually report that every republican is a conservative and every dem is a liberal, it confuses their viewers. They have no idea how to put issues or candidates into a context and even worse they can't judge their own own opinions within a meaningful context.
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