Is there any reason to open limp UTG?

[ianlippert]

or open limp any pot, for that matter? I feel like whenever you are in a position to open a pot, you should raise or fold. You should look at your hand and figure if it can beat x number of random hands. If it can raise, otherwise fold.

Also when I open limp I feel like I'm trying to get 'lucky' in that nobody raises me. If ppl do open limp UTG what are some hands that you do it with?

[BarronVangorToth]

There are a lot of hands to limp in early position with.

Check out Small Stakes Hold 'em p.82

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[jstewsmole]

I personally limp with stuff like AT orAJ or KJ maybe KQ though i might pop it with KQ depending on the mood im in. If the game is really loose(passive would be preferred) suited aces and medium and small pairs id limp with. but in ur average game i would not raise AJ or AT or KJ (assuming u play those hands utg period)because u basically get everyone to fold except hands that are probably beating u or dominating u and they have the position. thats not a position id like to be in personally.

[holdem2000]

How do you play small pocket pairs? Usually the only reason to play small pairs in a cash game is limp and try to hit a set. Also sometimes in an agressive game you should limp/reraise aces or even kings. There are some hands you might want to see a flop with even if you don't think you currently have the best hand - maybe you want to limp with suited connectors every now and then.

[maxor]

I think hands like 99 - 77, AJ, KQ, Q10, K10, A10, QJ, KJ etc. are limping hands from EP. Smaller pocket pairs are too vulnerable to domination from EP. You usually have to improve substantially to win with a had like 44 when you're out of position like that.

[blackize]

If you limp with 77-99 you will most likely have to improve substantially to win too. Especially since your limp makes it ok for lots of other hands to come in. Also by limping with something like 77-99 youre just begging for someone with overcards to stick around on any flop thats good for you. Q10 and K10 are hands you should play from LP only those are hands that are likely to be dominated.

[elmitchbo]

i was taking a look around chris ferguson's page the other day and he advocated exactly what you're saying.

in his 'tips' section he flat out says never limp, period. if a hand is good enough to play at all it should be good enough to raise with, and if it isn't good enough to raise then you should just muck it. i thought that was pretty interesting, as i've had similar thoughts from time to time. in my home game everyone wants to see every flop for nothing..... at one point i decided i would start charging admission on every hand i played. it worked pretty well in that situation, but i'm not sure it would work against more sophisticated players.

lots of good players have success seeing flops cheap and taking the lead if they hit, or if they know no one else hit. daniel n. comes to mind. i see the benefits of this style as well. it's hard to handle... kind of like a passive-aggressive mother-in-law.

i think the first strategy is more applicable to tourney games(my preference), and the second is more useful in a ring game.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]

Also when I open limp I feel like I'm trying to get 'lucky' in that nobody raises me.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with getting raised? Ever heard of position?

There's absolute position, and relative position. Absolute position is the button. Relative position is the last person to act if the preflop raiser leads at the flop - ie one seat to the right of the preflop raiser.

If you limp UTG, and UTG+1 raises, would you rather be on the button? Or UTG? I'd rather be UTG. I get to see how the whole field reacts to the raise. I can choose to call the raise, fold if it's heads up, or even re-raise.

If I call and catch a flop, I can bet into the raiser, or check to the raiser if I think he'll bet the whole field into me.

Even if I check to the raiser and he checks, if everyone checks behind I am in position to take the pot on 4th street with a bet because it looks like I was trying to trap the preflop raiser by checking the flop.

[k_squared]

I agree that their are lots of hands that you can limp UTG with. I also think that Ferguson was probably talking about tournament play in which he specializes (and it makes more sense in relation to NL than limit). The fact of the matter is that you get dealt a lot of hands that play better multi-way. If you raise with a lot of your weaker playable hands then you open yourself up to getting three-bet and isolated by people later in the field who have position on you. You don't want to fold 10-9 suited, but you also don't want to be playing it out of position against a 3-bettor.

One other thing... their is a reason that having position means acting after someone... it is because it affords an advantage. If you raise weak cards under the gun out of position and think that acting first provides you with a substantial advantage then you are mistaken. Against some players this might be the case, but against good opponents they will notice your tendency to raise with weak cards and constantly be betting into you when you are out of position.

So, while acting first is valuable in certain types of games against certain opponents it is certainly not unequivocally valuable. It is very easy to trap a person who has to act first. You let him bet and call him down. See how far he is willing to take a bluff and then adjust to that. If he likes to bluff you reduce your raising/calling requirements if he gives up his bluffs after the flop you can bet out on the turn when he checks to you... either way give me position!!!

-k_squared

[PotatoStew]

[ QUOTE ]
I think hands like 99 - 77, AJ, KQ, Q10, K10, A10, QJ, KJ etc. are limping hands from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't advise playing QT or KT very often from EP.

[ QUOTE ]
Smaller pocket pairs are too vulnerable to domination from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd much rather play a small pocket pair from EP in a typical game then some of the other hands you mentioned. They're much easier to know where you stand with and to get away from post flop when necessary.