Confrontations with Mega Fish

waynethetrain · #1 05-04-2005, 01:27 PM

Hand #1.

Fish #1 - sees flop 95.6% (button is this case)
Fish #2 - sees flop 56.67% (BB in this case)

Both have gone to showdown with high card several times.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, Button calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button folds.

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Hand #2.

UTG is Fish #1 from Hand #1. Sees flop 95.6% etc..

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls $1 (All-In).

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Hand #3.

Fish #2.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hand #4

Fish #2

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
8 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results to follow.

adsman · #2 05-04-2005, 01:33 PM

The problem with megafish is that they cannot be bluffed. They can be value bet like crazy but you need to show down some sort of a hand. And frankly, apart from hand 4 with your pair of sevens, you ain't got nothing. I don't care if you won every single one of these hands, with the reads that you have, what are you thinking?

toss · #3 05-04-2005, 01:39 PM

Isn't AceHigh good enough to showdown with against a guy who showdowns with highcards?

Another important stat you need to consider is how often they showdown and what they'll showdown with. Since Hero observed villains showing down with high cards (he didn't specify ace-high, king-high, 9-high) I'm assuming ace high is good enough to be profitable here.

Bradyams · #4 05-04-2005, 01:41 PM

Hand 1 -

I wouldn't raise this preflop. Your hand isn't that strong, and you are in the worst position for all remaining betting rounds.

As passive as these two are, I don't think I'd even bother betting into them. They could have anything, and will call you down with anything. You're not going to win this pot unless you have something. I'm not sure how you can call that river. If you're going to call a river bet with that hand, I'd rather bet it out (and fold to the very unlikely raise). The reason I'd bet it is because you are speinding the same as check-calling, but you have more of a chance to win the hand. You might be able to get him to fold a small pair, or ace high.

MrWookie47 · #5 05-04-2005, 01:41 PM

When you're playing with people this passive and loose, they won't fold, but they will give you free cards.

I'd check the turn in all hands and see if they'll give you a free card (or just to take one). It happens quite a bit. If they bet at you, they probably have something, and you can fold.

You've gotta check the river behind in hand 2. You're not going to be called by anything you beat.

Edit: You said they'll call a lot with high card, but are they bad enough to call with J high or worse? I don't think you'll win often enough when called, even if there is a chance you'll win when called.

waynethetrain · #6 05-04-2005, 01:43 PM

They were showing down with crap on occasion.

toss · #7 05-04-2005, 01:43 PM

Hand 1 I don't like since a flush got their on the river and I don't quite think KT high is strong enough.

Hand 2 I'd say is fine since villain is almost all-in, theres 3 Js on the board, and KQ high stands a good chance of being good.

Bradyams · #8 05-04-2005, 01:45 PM

The problem with all of these hands is that the pots are relatively small on the flop. Don't get too caught up in small pots with only a high card against loose/passives.

Aaron W. · #9 05-04-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Fish #1 - sees flop 95.6% (button is this case)
Fish #2 - sees flop 56.67% (BB in this case)

Both have gone to showdown with high card several times.

...

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

...

River: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

...

River: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a gigantic difference between seeing the showdown with high card and betting/raising with high card (ie habitual bluffer). How weak are the high cards are they showing down? How often are they showing them down? There's also not much value in these plays if you only have the see flop percentages.

waynethetrain · #10 05-04-2005, 01:56 PM

Before I post the results, I just want to make clear that I don't know that I played any of these hands properly. It's sort of rare for me to have 2 extreme fish on the same table and for me to get them isolated this often. I don't have much experience with hands like these. That's why I posted them in a batch. They were practically all the action of my session.

All I knew was that they were both playing any two hands on a regular basis and often going to showdown with weak high cards against multiple players - let alone heads up in steal situations etc....