A4s -- I need a better line . . .

Nick C · #1 12-04-2005, 10:15 PM

. . . because I'm pretty sure the one I took sucked.

For some context, though, here's what took place in the hand immediately before the one I'm wondering about, with basically the same cast:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, CO folds.

I was gritting my teeth while I bet the turn.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

All right, on to the A4s hand.

MP3 is 33/12/0.9 after 102 hands. My only note on him told me he once checkraised the flop with overs from the blinds after the PFR led the flop in a multiway pot.

I don't have very many hands with MP1.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

I was folding the flop if it came back two to me.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds, MP1 folds.

This check-fold seems bad to me.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

How about this instead: Checkraise flop, lead turn and river if just called, peel versus flop 3-bet but otherwise fold to further aggression?

Check-call turn, donkbet-fold river?

Check-call turn and river?

#2 12-04-2005, 10:19 PM

On the A4 hand, I could go for a donk on the turn folding to a raise.

#3 12-04-2005, 10:43 PM

I don't like betting the turn and folding to a raise, many people will expect you are donking a FD and raise.

I would go with a c/c and c/r the turn if a harmless card falls I'd c/r. My reasoning behind this is that you are representing a good hand that you are protecting from a possible draw. You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

damaniac · #4 12-04-2005, 10:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

Buckmulligan · #5 12-04-2005, 10:54 PM

The first hand is fine. Betting that turn is a lot better than checking it.

I like the check/call turn, donkbet river line on the second hand personally.

#6 12-04-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am referring to the second hand, the A4 one

brettbrettr · #7 12-04-2005, 11:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

damaniac · #8 12-04-2005, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am referring to the second hand, the A4 one

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know. That's why I was so puzzled.

belloc · #9 12-05-2005, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You might even fold MP1 off a hand like AKo in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

So this MP1 is going to stick around on that flop with two big overcards, then when his gin card comes on the turn, your raise is going to make him just fold?

Are you planning to look real mean while you put the raise in?

EDIT: I see this has been amply ridiculed before me. I withdraw my sassy tone.

Jake (The Snake) · #10 12-05-2005, 12:46 AM

First impression is that this fold is kinda giving up much too easily. When it's your action on the turn after MP3 bets, MP1 doesn't seem to be of any concern to Hero, unless he has a draw that can outdraw us or he raises the turn. After raising preflop and check/calling an ace high flop, I have to believe I have him beat very often. If we call and he now raises though, we know we are in trouble.

Since it was checked to MP3 on the flop, he can easily be betting hands that you have beat as well. I'd check/call the turn for sure... not sure if I like c/c or b/f on the river though, I guess it depends on how often you think he would bet a queen or pp again on the end.