Having someone else study you for tells

[beekeeper]

I'm returning to a game that's been on hiatus. I have a friend who also plays in that game. We talk a lot about the game. If one of us sees a tell on the other, we'll tell the other after the game. I'm thinking about asking this friend to observe me for about 3 weeks (3 tourneys) for tells--I'll do the same for him if he's interested. Based on what Harrington said about the hands being a more reliable tell, should I ask my friend to focus on what I do with my hands?

Also, I've been trying to watch for tells related to hands, but I'm not picking anything up. Does anyone know what I should be looking for?

Thanks in advance.

[RiverDood]

Here are some for starters. Additions and improvements welcome.

1. Right after a player looks at his cards, where do his hands go? Do they cover his cards? Drop back on his lap? Tap the table? Does he set up an angled hand tent in front of his cards? (I'll peg that for some vulnerable hand like K8s or middling suited connectors -- the body language says: I want to play this hand, but I'm vulnerable.)

2. How does the player put his chips in the pot? A rapid horizontal shove means strength for some players (but not all.) A noisy airlift often is a bluff.

3. Where are the player's hands when the flop comes? Resting still, out of sight? Resting on an earlobe, cheek, etc.? Still covering cards? The first two worry me more than the third, but no guarantees here.

4. if you're playing stud, does the player tidy up his face-up cards as the hand plays out? Mike Caro says that often means the draw hasn't hit yet. If a flush or a straight arrives, the player won't touch a thing, no matter how disheveled his hand looks. (This one has actually made/saved money for me.)

5. Does the player fiddle with his chips as the hand plays out? When and why? I'll start out thinking that's an attempt to mask weakness, but each player is his/her own story.

As you move up in levels, players usually tidy up their tells or create reverse tells. So there's no master list that will ever work for all games. All you can do is watch someone play a run of hands, and see what's different when they've got a great hand; a promising draw, a vulnerable made hand, an obvious fold, and a bluff.

If you can pick up only one useful tell, look for what they do with a monster hand. Too many people fixate on looking for bluff tells. Your own cards will dictate how you play against most bluffs. Unless it's a very tricky game, you don't need tell wisdom here. What you do need is the insight to lay down AK on a board of A33, because the small blind is doing something that tells you he really does have a 3.

I think asking your friend what tells to look for would be dependent on the level of play at your regular game. Do you think everyone at your game would be likely to watch your hands? If so, then sure, have your buddy pay attention and let you know. I would venture to say that "tells" related to betting patterns would be more useful though. I've had friends point out things like that which in turn have helped my game alot. In my limited experience, someone is more likely to notice that anytime you raise 3x in early position you're playing a high pair, rather than noticing where your hands are when action is going down.

[beekeeper]

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Do you think everyone at your game would be likely to watch your hands?

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Um, good point. I feel kind of stupid now. But thanks for the advice.

Thanks, River Dude--this gives me somethign to watch in my opponents.

Regards, H

[mosdef]

you missed the most popular one - shaky hands mean monster.

how reliable is the neck pulse?
that's not something that can easily be controlled i think. i made a call based on the neck vein pumping like crazy which he was trying to cover up. i was wrong. i guess the pump means strength. what do you think?

[Mikey]

you are actually going to be worse off sometimes... when you study each other......,

what usually happens is that your friend will study you intently and then conjure up something through no fault of his own, but just as an assurance that he saw you do "this or that"

You have to understand that when you are playing in a tourney most players aren't watching for tells, they are concentrating on their own hands.

I hope this helps.

[squallA964]

In my experience, "looking" for a tell is more disastrous than beneficial. You end up thinking that youre seeing something thats not really there. The best tells that I've picked up are just ones that jump out at me without ACTIVELY looking for them. Don't get me wrong, I'm always trying to observe everything at the table, but I don't lock my mind on what somebody's actions might mean. Then later, when I need to make a decision against that player, I'll go through all the things I observed through the night. If I suddenly get a flash of insight, 99% of the time I've picked up a true tell. If I don't get that sudden burst, then I just play it straight up.

But as this topic is about hand-tells, I was playing in a game last week where a guy stacked his chips a different way whether he had a monster or not. He would count them out and put them in the middle in two or 3 piles if he had a monster, one huge stack if his hand was marginal (subconciously, I'd guess he'd think one tall stack was intimidating and make people fold, but who knows). I didn't pick this up til the end of the night when I was able to see him show down several hands in a row against other players.

[BarronVangorToth]

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In my experience, "looking" for a tell is more disastrous than beneficial.

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And sometimes it's the opposite...

One time at some game some years ago (specifics ahoy!) there was this guy who always bet with his left hand and always turned up the goods. One time he was in a hand with me betting with his right hand -- I called him down with third pair because I knew this other hand was bluffing ... but I wasn't confident enough to raise (especially if I'm right, then he's not calling). Sure enough, I picked off the guy, and he went bananas that I called him down with such garbage (and I was VERY weak tight, so most knew I never did this) and he insisted that I tell him...

I was about to leave and didn't care so I told him that he was betting with the other hand.

He went further bananas and showed that he had a drink in his other hand that I guess I hadn't noticed.

Ooops.

Telling tales of tells indeed.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

I think the neck pulse would be fairly reliable. Especially if its pulsing enough that you can visible notice it. As Caro says, most players get a rush of adrenaline or the shakes that can't be controlled (I know I do) when they hit a monster. So that being said, could be a good way to know when to lay down or stay in.