blocking bets - what am I missing?

[meow_meow]

I don't use blocking bets, but maybe I'm missing an important concept.

The way I understand it, a blocking bet is a smallish bet (say 1/4 pot) on the river when you are OOP, in an attempt to prevent villain from making a large bluff.
Is this more of less correct?

Considering only ss NL here, say 200NL and below.
Isn't it preferrable to check most times and induce a bluff (which will usually be <1/2 pot)? If villain has missed his draw, he won't be calling the bet, and you'll be getting more value by check/calling. Of course, you'll sometimes be called be weakish holdings that would have otherwise checked behind, but doesn't that make it a value bet in the first place?

On the other side of the coin, if villain has you beat, he is likely to raise, at which point you'll either be folding (in which case check/folding was a better option) or calling (in which case check/calling would probably have been cheaper).

What am I missing here?

[punter11235]

Hello,

This is interesting question.
I think that blocking bets make no sense at all and I never use them.
But I would like to hear opinions of experiencced players because I may be missing something.

Best wishes

[amoeba]

if you believe villain bluffs and also bets his real hands with value bets then check calling is better.

if you believe villain bluffs and also bets his real hands with potsize bets, or big overbets then blocking bet is better.

[Ghazban]

A post I made on this subject a while back:

Blocking bets (general)

[amoeba]

I'll give an example from recently.

NL50.

I raise with AA, guy calls behind me.

flop comes JTx, 2 flush. I bet pot, he calls.

turn comes an offsuit king, I bet 1/2 pot, he calls.

river comes another J. I check, he bets pot, I fold.

he turns over AK.

I wish I would have blocked river instead.

[kurto]

The point of a blocking bet is to control the size of the final bet so that you can see the river cheaply. Its when you believe there's a respectable chance that you're ahead and want to go to showdown. If you check, a player may bet to take the pot; bet more then you want to call. But if you bet into them, and they don't have the nuts, it will often slow them down.

[ QUOTE ]
a blocking bet is a smallish bet (say 1/4 pot) on the river when you are OOP

[/ QUOTE ] I think the size of the bet varies depending on how strong the betting prior to the river went. (and your opponents)

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't it preferrable to check most times and induce a bluff (which will usually be <1/2 pot)?

[/ QUOTE ] Checking and inducing a bluff is better when you're certain you're ahead. A blocking bet is better when you're less certain. What if you check and your opponent bets the pot? You have to match the pot to see the showdown. But if you bet 1/2 the pot... and they call, then you've committed less chips with a questionable hand.

[ QUOTE ]
If villain has missed his draw, he won't be calling the bet, and you'll be getting more value by check/calling.

[/ QUOTE ] A better example would be... you suspect your opponent has trips. You make a straight. There's a possible flush on the board. You know your opponent likes his hand, yet you think you have him beat... and you're both afraid of the flush. You lead out with a small bet (which could be read by your opponent as a value bet), if he has trips or 2 pair, he'll likely call. If he has a weak flush, he'll call. If he has a strong flush, he'll raise. You get value when you're ahead and only get reraised if your opponent has a monster.

[ QUOTE ]
What am I missing here?

[/ QUOTE ] It prevents you from being bluffed off of strong non nuts hands out of position.

When you say its not as good as check-fold, that's simply not true. Because (1) by controlling the betting, you can make a bet the size that you would call based on what chance you think you have of having the best hand (you control the pot odds) (2) with a scary board, you still have some fold equity even with a small bet -- you still have the opportunity to make a better hand fold (assuming the board is scary enough)

There are players who will bet the pot if checked to them, but call if you bet a smallish amount into them. It still shows strength on your part and, if they have less then the nuts, it slows them down.

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]

When you say its not as good as check-fold, that's simply not true. Because (1) by controlling the betting, you can make a bet the size that you would call based on what chance you think you have of having the best hand (you control the pot odds) (2) with a scary board, you still have some fold equity even with a small bet -- you still have the opportunity to make a better hand fold (assuming the board is scary enough)


[/ QUOTE ]

I hadn't considered the FE issue. My feeling is that this probably doesn't come into play very often at 100NL (which is what I play). At higher limits, where FE does become significant, there are probably more sophisticated opponents who may recognize a blocking bet for what it is and raise accordingly.

I guess it comes down to the following:

Blocking bet works when:
A -opponent would have made a large enough bluff to get you out
B -opponent has a weak hand and would have checked behind, but calls your bet
C -opponent calls with a hand that has you beat, and would have bet a larger amount had he been checked to (but which you would have still called)
D -opponent folds a better hand

Blocking bet no good when:
E -opponent would have bluffed an amount you would have called, but folds instead
F -opponent has a strong hand and reraises an amount that you will call, but would have bet a smaller amount if checked to
G -opponent has a better hand and would have checked behind
H -opponent recognizes blocking bet and reraises you off the hand.

In the 100NL 6max games on party, I think A and D happen very seldom. Large bluffs occur relatively seldom, and the players that use them tend to use them often, and can be stacked with regularity. On the other side, I think E and F happen all the time.

Thanks for the insight though, I think I might try to start using the blocking bet in very select situations.