Play this different than me? PLO8 $2000

[Wintermute]

So, reason I'm posting this one is that I had just lost a third buyin of the night on another $2k table (the dude hasn't seen me lose at all though). So I was a little tilty at the time, but I *think* I played this OK, want to see if others can find mistakes...

Setup: I've been playing this guy head up on another table for about an hour, chipped away at him pretty good because he's too tight to play head up correctly (VPIP 23, PFR 4). Folds the BB all the time. I sat down at this table about 30 hands ago, and I've raised him from the SB the last dozen or so times in a row, and picked up the pot either preflop or on the flop all but one time. He seemed to be getting irritated, and started returning the favor about 2 hands before this one. So my mindset is: this guy is tight, but has adopted a raise-more-than-he-normally-does strategy to counter me. He's also a strong, winning player FWIW.

OK, here's the hand:

$2000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, June 24, 02:25:53 EDT 2005
Table Table 52062 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: BelochKa ( $2631.25 )
Seat 8: Hero ( $2281 )
BelochKa posts small blind [$10].
Hero posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 2c Ks 5s 6d ]
BelochKa raises [$40].
Hero calls [$30].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 3s, 8d ]
BelochKa bets [$99].
Hero calls [$99].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
BelochKa bets [$297].
Hero raises [$1188].

...looong pause here while he thinks...

BelochKa calls [$891].
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
BelochKa is all-In.
Hero is all-In.
BelochKa shows [ 2d, Td, 4s, 7s ] a pair of sevens.
BelochKa shows 6,4,3,2,A for low.
Hero doesn't show [ 2c, Ks, 5s, 6d ] a pair of sixes.
Hero doesn't show 6,5,3,2,A for low.

Results in white (do me a favor, tell me what you think before you read the outcome):
<font color="white">
BelochKa wins $175.13 from side pot #1 with a pair of sevens.
BelochKa wins Lo ($175.12) from side pot #1 with 6,4,3,2,A.
BelochKa wins $2280.5 from the main pot with a pair of sevens.
BelochKa wins Lo ($2280.5) from the main pot with 6,4,3,2,A.

</font>

[mosquito]

Hard not to see the outcome, it's there on the
river.......

I'm weak at SH play, can't really offer anything
constructive. Looks reasonable, but looks like
you could be making flop and turn calls/bets based
on 1/2 the pot (don't know which half). Given his
turn bet into you, I want to know I'm not getting
3/4erd or worse before commiting big bucks.

Is that hand pretty normal to call the raise PF?
I'm clueless here.......

[Nick709]

I don't play at this level but I play a lot of SH O8, limit and PL. I think I would be done on the turn, it looks too much like I'm either beat both ways, or being freerolled.

[gergery]

I don't like your big turn raise.

I just wrote a long post saying how you should fold on the river since you look clearly beat, but then you're getting 3:1 and with the straight hitting its quite likely you're 2nd nut low is good. But even getting 3:1 I think a fold there might be best against that opponent, since i don't think he is calling on a draw for high with 3 low on the board -- he has to have at very worst 3rd nut low here and likely better.

So if you are that committed after a big turn bet then you are basically willing to put your entire stack at risk on the turn, and that hand doesn't look strong enough to me.
Could you have bet smaller on the turn to get the same range of hands to fold? Or quickly called hoping to reevaluate/bluff on the river? A fold seems alittle weak there, but he is an overly tight good player firing twice.

I guess I'd have raised smaller on the turn and folded on the river. But i dont see a big mistake here, just a judgement call I don't like: being willing to play for your stack with 2nd nut low and weak high against an overly tight player firing twice. But heads up is so much against the player its hard to say.

Bummer dude.

[Wintermute]

What I was thinking is that his bet on the turn was more continuation than real strength. He would have to have 2-4 (and probably some high) to call my raise. A2 or A4 probably has to fold there, which was what I expecting to see him turn up. If he has A24, then I'm definitely going to lose this one, but I had a hunch I could get him to fold a pretty good range of weaker hands. Anyway, I think less of a raise prices in hands weaker than 24+some high, so I went for broke.

Given that I was expecting him to fold the turn and he called, maybe I could've given up on the river--but like you said that card completed so many draws for high that it was possible my low could be good, getting 3:1 felt like I had to call.

[Big Dave D]

Whereas ring PLO8b is much easier, variance wise, than say PLO, headsup and v shorthanded PLO8b can be very swingy, simply because so many hands are split, and everything comes down to the few hands with a lot of chance/cold deck.

This is more true if you are playing loose.

gl

Dave


Poker Blog! Omaha Galore!

[emptyshell]

Call the turn bet. If it's a continuation, he'll give up and check the river. Then you can bet and take it down without the crazily bad odds you are getting to make the same move on the turn (risking $2.1k to win $600, not worth it).

If he leads again on the river, then he's got something. Call and hope you are taking half.

BTW: Why are calling on the flop if you expect him to have A2 or A4? In general, it's not a horrible call, hoping to see a check on the turn, but if you have this read...

[Wintermute]

It's gradually coming into focus for me... my play on this hand is basically just tilt. It may be disguised by the fact that I backed into a 2nd-nut low heads up... but it took a stupid call on the flop to get there, and didn't necessitate the "clever" raise on the turn, or call on the river. Good to be straightened out once in a while, thx

[stud7champ]

cant fault your preeflop play. Post flop u appear to be going low v his nice wrap. I think u were too aggresive on the turn why risk 1188 v his 297 raise. If he has u beaten he calls u lose 1188 if he is beaten he loses 297. I would call on the turn and wait for the river. Flopping the 7 on the river is not good you made a big mistake going all in before the river card. if you had the nuts the raise on the turn made sense. Without the nuts on the turn you have the low probability drawing hand. Unless I figured I had a 75% chance on either the low or high i.e. had some kind of freeroll on the turn I can't see your play being right. Just my 2 cnets but I have been killing the PL game on PP especially $200PL game

[Windmilla]

I PROBABLY WOULDNT OF RAISED HIM ON THE TURN