AQo...bad line on the turn?

#1 10-20-2005, 07:07 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero folds...

Final Pot: 8.79 BB

Is this the precisely the kind of fold I shouldn't be making? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

After I looked at this hand again, I realized it might be the kind of thing Ed Miller is talking about in the "Crushing LL" thread.

numeri · #2 10-20-2005, 07:09 PM

Raise preflop - you have a strong hand with lots of equity. Flop bet is good, and the turn looks fine. This is not the kind of bet Ed was talking about. The typical bet he describes is on the river when your hand is strong but not a likely winner. In that case, even though you usually won't win, you can call one bet.

This is a completely different situation.

Shillx · #3 10-20-2005, 07:10 PM

Welcome to the boards. I'm busy right now but I will say that you misplayed this one on all 3 streets IMO.

Brad

Redd · #4 10-20-2005, 07:10 PM

I value-raise preflop. The way it played out, why did you lead the flop? You're not going to get all 6 villains to fold and you don't have a strong enough draw to bet for value here.

Felipe · #5 10-20-2005, 07:24 PM

*grunch*

preflop
You can raise for value. You will win this hand more than your share (if you don't understand this, i recommend ed's SSH book available here or at amazon)

flop
How many outs do you have on this flop?

3 outs to a nut straight. 1 out to a stong hand (T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]). If it comes out, you've got 7 outs to beat any flush (someone would need 2 hearts in their hand if you are going to beat their flush).

You also have a BDflush on the flop, plus one over card (which makes for 3 cards to a broadway straight so lets presume the BDflush and overcard together are 1.5 outs)

All in all, you have 5.5-out hand with redraws. I think you don't have the equity to bet here, but you can ck/call one bet back to you, you'd have the odds for it. Fold for 2 bets back to you.

turn
What other alternative to folding will give you the least negative EV? clear fold IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero folds...

Final Pot: 8.79 BB

Is this the precisely the kind of fold I shouldn't be making? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

After I looked at this hand again, I realized it might be the kind of thing Ed Miller is talking about in the "Crushing LL" thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Felipe · #6 10-20-2005, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the boards. I'm busy right now but I will say that you misplayed this one on all 3 streets IMO.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]
turn fold too?

Bizot · #7 10-20-2005, 08:13 PM

I am not sure a preflop raise here is mandatory all the time. You are in the SB with no position with a few limpers in already. Yes you have a strong hand but by raising preflop you are inviting them to call on the flop anyways with crappy draws.

I'd complete the blind check/call the flop and fold the turn unimproved.

@bsolute_luck · #8 10-21-2005, 08:48 AM

preflop is fine. not a big deal.

Flop: don't like the flop bet. it is very doubtful you have the best hand here. i like check/call because your hand has good redraws.

Turn: is fine. i'm curious why Shillx doesn't like it.

MATT111 · #9 10-21-2005, 08:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop - you have a strong hand with lots of equity. Flop bet is good, and the turn looks fine. This is not the kind of bet Ed was talking about. The typical bet he describes is on the river when your hand is strong but not a likely winner. In that case, even though you usually won't win, you can call one bet.

This is a completely different situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think the flop bet is good? I just don`t understand.