QQ fold preflop

[Leroy Soesman]

Something I saw go down recently. Tight game 5/10 NL Full Ring.

UTG (a recenably tight postflop player, but doesn't liberally call preflop raises) limps UTG. Folded to the SB who completes (SB had been playing very little hands).

The BB raises his QQ to 50. UTG Calls 50. SB reraises to 150. BB folds...

who would lay down his Q's here?

I don't remember the exact stacksize. but let's assume that every player had 100BB for $1000, which wasn't far off. Stacksizes were around that number.

[octop]

Depends on stack size

[thabadguy]

Have you seen him L-RR with ONLY AA-KK?
I dont think this is an easy fold.

[Leroy Soesman]

I've changed the post, I had forgotten that important stacksize information.

I hadn't seen a great many hands. But for the past half hour no limp reraises at all. No preflop reraises either.

But I think it would be interesting to discuss this in a number of instances. What if there had been more preflop reraises ( by others than the SB). What if thsi had been $2/$4?

[mikech]

that's a bizarre play, is there a term for this? it's not really a lrr, is it: complete in the sb, with only the bb option left to act, and then reraise? weird.

[flawless_victory]

this is wierd.
BTW/ i would muck here.

[cero_z]

Hi fv,

[ QUOTE ]
BTW/ i would muck here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the problem I have with folding (besides the fact that it's less fun): if you're folding QQ here, then presumably it's because you think there's a high chance you're up against AA/KK. If my opponent is that tight and readable, then doesn't it make sense to take a flop with him, getting 2:1 right now, with $850 left in our stacks? If I flop a set, there'll be 300 in the pot with 3 betting rounds left; shouldn't be too hard to get the whole 850 from him--what could he do if you bet/raised the size of the pot?

Plus, we ought to have some additional equity by moving all-in if an Ace flops (without a King flopping as well), though you could argue that his small ($100) re-raise pre-flop can only be Aces, since he can't give an Ace-high hand 2:1. Obviously we don't put another chip in the pot unless a Queen or an Ace flops.

I guess there's nothing too wrong with just leaving it alone if he plays this tight and predictably, but if you're just gonna reload if you somehow get stacked in this hand, then it seems like it's worth making a "bad" call pre-flop, since sucking out on this type of player's Aces/Kings may lead him to play much worse. And if he wins, he'll be making a huge mistake only reraising you 100 bucks in this spot next time, if the stacks are 2 grand apiece.

[Leroy Soesman]

I dunno. I think that SB would only be doing this with AK AA or KK. AK because he might read UTG for a small pocketpair and the BB for anyting AJ and higher.

I think BB needs a lot more than just set equity here, and I don't really see what kind of flop he could wish for to push SB of his hand. Because I don't see yet how flopping an A here would be a nice time to push, i'd appreciate a little elaboration there.

btw. there is still someone to act behind you! I wonder what range of hands everyone thiks the SB could have here.

[Paragon]

Calling $100 more just seems like too steep a price to pay. If you want to play tricky there's some hope perhaps, but I'm not sure playing for set value only is +EV anymore. I guess odds are like 250:100 now, so you need to win at least 600 more from the guy every time you flop a set (this would gives us the 8.5:1 odds correct?)

Maybe I'm just waving my hands around here, but that seems like you would have to stack the guy like 90% of the time or something. Just with suckout odds or other absurdity, I'm not sure if you can be that confident. (e.g., 3 flush flops where you hold Q suited, you might accidentally blow more money as a huge dog)

Of course, maybe I'm a wuss [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (also, this all assumes he is doing this with AA/KK)

[arod15]

Maybe if a rock reraised me but in all liklyhood i move all in here with QQ